@G1gop - Two alternatives, which I have used in my Coleman Feather and Optimus 80s - Aspen 4 and panel wipe (fast dry). Aspen for preference, as I can use it indoors with no perceptible smell at all. The panel wipe I bought via Ebay does leave a slight after-smell on shut down, and I think it has a tendency to leave a bit of soot on burner bells (though I haven't had any problems with jet clogging). Aspen 4 burns as clean as a whistle. Aspen 2 (which contains 2 stroke oil) was developed by a Swedish chemist who heard about the way Swedish loggers were suffering chronic lung problems from the exhaust fumes of their chainsaws, and he later developed Aspen 4 (for 4 strokes) for garden machinery, as most 4 stroke engines used in garden machinery are pretty abysmal in the amount of exhaust nasties they chuck out. Some Aspen 4 stockists near you: Easy Life Garden Machinery Ltd Dairy House Farm, Farm road Oakmore, Cheshire CW8 2HB Sandbach Mowers and Repairs Lodge Road Sandbach, CW11 3HD Ashley Mowers Castle Mill Lane, Ashley Altrincham, Cheshire WA15 0QT From memory, the last 5 litre jerrican of Aspen 4 I bought was around £20, collected from a stockist in Leek. HTH, and best regards, Gunner
Just bought 5 litres of Barrettine methylated spirits (Ebay, UK) for £17.99 inc. delivery. But if you want it, get in quick; only seven of them left. Methylated Spirits / Meths, (Denatured Alcohol) - 5 Litre / (5L) 5015861050502 | eBay
@Gunner Thanks for that. The first three: Easy Life Garden Machinery Ltd Dairy House Farm, Farm road Oakmore, Cheshire CW8 2HB Sandbach Mowers and Repairs Lodge Road Sandbach, CW11 3HD Ashley Mowers Castle Mill Lane, Ashley Altrincham, Cheshire WA15 0QT I have used before and (admittedly a few years ago now), they all said 'no call' so were stopping stocking it. In fact the Oakmore place I bought their stock up! That's what I am using now lol. As for meths, I tend to buy methanol from a few places locally that sell bulk for making bio diesel. Last I bought was 25L for £20. I will contact those places again and see if they are now stocking Aspen again. Alan
@G1gop - you might get lucky, Alan, as I got those addresses from Aspen's current website, and I doubt they would still be listed by Aspen if they stopped selling it years ago. With best regards, Gunner
Just spoken to Easy Life Garden Machinery Ltd Dairy House Farm, Farm road Oakmore, Cheshire CW8 2HB. Very helpful guy. Yes they do stock. They did stop but it's taken off again! So always in stock. Prices (as of 23-02-2021) Aspen4T 1Ltr £5 5Ltr £20 25Ltr £85 All in stock. In case it helps anyone else.
Ah, the question of fuel. What good is a robustly engineered 90-year-old brass stove in all its simplistic glory if you cannot get your hands on as much fuel as you like, and of the proper sort? I have given the question of kerosene and kerosene alternatives some thought, and I would like to share my reflections: Besides personal preferences and burner requirements, I would first like to praise the use of kerosene over petrol, because unlike petrol it is not explosive in vapour form, and unlike spirits (and petrol, to some degree) it does not lose its thermal capacity through rapid evaporation when exposed to open air. And, as you might have guessed, the two points are closely related. Therefore, for winter camping and mountaineering, the goal is to use the heaviest fuel you can get away with while still being able to gasify it prior to combustion, and with properties that allow for a minimum of residual soot and lethal carbon monoxide exaust fumes. Enough with the science bit. Where I live, in Norway, kerosene was commonly used as fuel for heating your house or cabin, pumped via a day tank from a tank in the basement or under ground in your garden, to feed a cast iron circular wick burner of sorts. Back then it was much cheaper than diesel, and a truck from the company who ran the petrol station would arrive at your address to fill up your tank. For camping use, you could help yourself to whatever quantity from your own private filling station :-) In recent years this form of heating has been banned for environmental reasons, and thus quality kerosene is no longer readily available. Consequently, I have been doing some research into a) what fuel might substitute kerosene for fueling the kerosene heater at my cabin when temperatures drop below -20C, and b) what might be a viable alternative for camping use (meaning available and inexpensive, while not damaging my stoves). It is my firm belief that the answer is something along these lines: For any wick-burner (camping stove or domestic stove), you could always turn to expensive lamp oil, but the obvious answer is simple: Diesel. Not for lamps, though, as it gives poor light and more soot. For any pressure-stove (including kerosene lamps burning gas from a pressurized tank), however, diesel is a poor choice, as the gasified fuel takes a lot higher temperature to ensure combustion, hence you will end up with a lot of soot in/on your burner (or a lamp that does not burn very bright). Equally, for any pressure burner, lamp oil or any product that is "naphtha"-based (or has wax added to it for a more pleasant candle-like burn) should be avoided at all costs (even if the product is called "lamp kerosene" and the label has a picture of a petromax on it because the graphic designers who know nothing of combustion or chemistry though it would look the part), as it will clog up your kerosene tubes 100 times faster than what normal burning of kerosene will. That said, there are two excellent alternatives that does not involve paying £11-12 per litre at a sports and outdoors shop, like the purified petrol enthusiasts swear by: El Cheapo: Barbeque fire starter liquid. (Avoid any "eco"-alternatives from this particular product shelf, as these would be closer to lamp oil with all the draw backs listed above.) Again, essentially a light kerosene type refined petroleum product. I don't have as much experience with this, but I know several people who are now using it exclusively, not as an alternative, but as a replacement for kerosene. Availability: Any supermarket or petrol station (more so in the summer months than when it is snowing, for obvious reasons related to its primary and stated purpose of lighting your BBQ). Price: £2 per litre, and it only comes in 1 litre bottles. My only concern here would be that without notifying the good people of the kerosene stove community, and depending on your country or location, producers could be adding safety to their BBQ starter fluid in the form of various additives to ensure a less explosive burn, which could be a problem and put this fuel back in the lamp oil category. The Dark Horse (no pun intended): White Spirit or similar (different names in different countries I guess), is the stuff is clear and sold as paint brush cleaner at any hardware store. Like kerosene it is essentially a refined petroleum product, flammable but very stable, less smelly than kerosene, but with a similar whiff. In my experience it burns identical to kerosene. Availability: Any hardware store or paint shop. Price: £2 -3.5 per litre, depending on whether you buy 10L, 5L or 1L containers. Bonus tip: I have always been very happy using denatured alcohol in various forms for the pre-heating, but recently I have been experimenting with bioethanol, the type you would buy to fuel a chimney-less bio-fireplace, wick-less table lamps with designer glass frames and pebbles in the middle You get the idea. That stuff, which over here is orange coloured, is only about £3 per litre (cheaper than denatured alcohol), and in line with its primary purpose and intended use; burns perfectly clean, is almost odourless in liquid from AND seems much less volatile, which leads it to burn longer for a better, safer pre-heating of the burner in outdoor conditions. Or, if you are chasing the optimisation of your tin-box Primus or Radius camper kit; if your meth can/spirit bottle normally holds 6 pre-heat fillings, it can now deliver 9 in windless conditions. My humble two pence, no more. Since I am writing to an audience of more experienced stove collectors and kerosene afficionados, I would love to hear your thoughts on this, for my own further education in the field. All the best!
Interesting analysis from a Norwegian perspective. Just a word of warning to non-Norwegians: Naphtha (=gasoline) is called White Spirit(s) in some countries. @Trusty McTrad If you can get hold of Jet-A or Jet-A1, used for jet aircraft, that is pure kerosene (Jet-A1 has antifreeze, but Jet-A is not available in Australia). Cheers Tony
The more simple the stove, the more tolerant of diesel it will be. In my Chinese 8 wick stove, operation on diesel was indistinguishable from operation on kerosene. I don't remember if I've run diesel in my sad iron heater, with no easy source of a replacement wick, that won't be happening. I've run diesel in Dietz lanterns with the only issue being the requirement for more frequent wick trimming. I've also burned diesel in an Aladdin lamp. Wouldn't run at full output, required frequent wick cleaning, and it's not recommended of course, but zero smell or scent and it did work. We were very thankful for the heat during some hard times. Burned several gallons during that episode.
So what is white spirit in the UK? I have used bbq lighting fluid from B&M with no problem in the past. Bought up end of season stock/
Hi Ed, I agree - and I believe that is what I said, with regards to anything with a pump and a jet nozzle. (Actually, this applies to normal petrol/gas station diesel, but there is an exception; "winter diesel" as found on the pumps in really cold regions in the arctic and sub-arctic mountain areas, as it contains as much as 30-40% pure kerosene to keep it from turning to snot, which normal diesel does around -11C) I guess the ultimate test is that if it takes work or won't burn correctly, then the fuel is incorrect, as you correctly point out. Wick burners are different though, where the only potential issue is more soot. On the other hand, if your wick stove burns correctly on regular diesel, then I would not recommend limiting your access to cheap and available fuel by insisting on kerosene being the one and only righteous path to campstove salvation. As kerosene is getting more expensive and harder to come by, I find the idea of identifying a perfect alternative that the designers of the stove a 100 years ago perhaps did not have in mind, but that has alle the right chemical and thermal properties. Full disclosure: I still have about 350L of pure kerosene in my sub-surface garden tank, so my motivation here is research, not a desperate kerosene shortage :-)
@Marc - Your 8 wick stove is obviously better than the one I have on the boat, where I have a 1000L diesel tank to tap into, but I found that my wick burner took a long time to reach the temperature where diesel would burn soot-free. As wrote in response to Ed; If it lights like it should and burns correctly, then the stove is telling you it is an appropriate fuel. Whether the fuel is too volatile or too heavy, you will be able to tell from the combustion and flame pattern. (Best to avoid experimenting with overly volatile fuels though. In my book, nothing should be tested "to see if it will run on petrol/gazoline", as the vapour can be explosive at very low (0.8%) air saturation levels.)
@G1gop - I am glad your experience with BBQ lighting fluid aligns with mine. That would suggest the chemical composition is similar. White Spirit (which is a name apparently used in some countries for much more volatile, petrol/gazoline-like fluids) here is essentially Mineral Terpentine, i.e. a solvent that will clean oils, wax and wet paint etc. Unlike organic terpentine, wich has its purpose in the treatment of hard woods and as solvent for wood oils, mineral terpentine will evaporate like kerosene (unlike diesel, which leaves an oily substance behind). White Spirit is normally clear, and is called "essence de petrol" in French, and "lack-nafta" in Swedish. I am hoping "mineral terpentine might get you somewhere at B&Q or similar, and look forward to hearing the results should you try to test it as a kerosene alternative.
Hi @kerophile - I have read the post by @thorbjorngjertsen, and he is absolutely right about the "winter diesel", more on that later. However, as much as White Spirit/mineral terpentine is lighter and more volatile than kerosene, I disagree that it is a dangerous difference. The boiling point for kerosene is apparently 150C, while the "white spirit" mineral terpentine I am using has a boiling point of 130C, which is close enough to not pose any danger in terms of evaporation and flammability. The pulsating burn could possibly be caused by the mix of residual kerosine and white spirit. I experienced a much less dramatic pulsation, more like slow and gentle breathing, when I first tested white spirit in my Radius 21, but after the second refill, the pulsating burn was gone, and I could not tell any difference in the flame pattern. Beware though, some nafta-based paint remover solvents/thinners (under various names in various countries) can have a boiling point as low as 70C, which makes it a very different substance.
One more piece of information and point of clarification: Whereas pump station petrol (or gazoline) is generally the same everywhere, and kerosene is kerosene, diesel from the pump station is not the same, and will contain a diesel/kerosene mix depending on the location, season, and the prevailing temperature. In places like Canada and Norway, where motorists and trucks will frequent areas where the temperature will be sub-zero (celcius, i.e. below freezing) and then some for several months of the year, the pump station diesel can contain as much as 40% pure kerosene to keep it from freezing (oil compounds crystallise to a wax) and blocking the diesel pump. This probably goes a long way to explain people's different experince with using diesel as an alternative fuel. @Tony Press - Thanks for the jet fuel tip. I know that aviation fuel F34 is 90% kerosene and the rest is a mix of diesel and lubricant oil, but I was not aware that Jet A/A1 was pure kerosene. Sadly, I have no airfield near by, but will ask a pilot friend for a can of the stuff (as soon as he is flying again, that is). As a matter of fact, and of interest to all kerosene enthusiasts, whereas Jet A will probably damage a normal diesel engine unless lubricants are added, you can easily run a diesel engine on F34. In fact, the Norwegian Army runs its entire fleet of vehicles, from Leopard Main Battle Tanks to Mercedes Gelandewagen cars and Volkswagen Amarok 4x4 pickup trucks, on F34, for all-year performance and to escape the problems of having to mix various amounts of kerosene in the diesel in colder climates. And here is the interesting part, which proves the qualities of kerosene by anecdotal evidence: When I was in the Army, we were told by our mechanics that the F34 (90%kerosene) that fueled both the engine and the Webasto diesel heater in our cars and trucks, actually caused the loss of about 15% of the horsepower performance of the engines, but at the same time it made the diesel heater burn with 30% more effect, and without less maintenance than if run on the civilian diesel it was designed for. For the same reason, F34 is also used to power every single kerosene stove in the Army. Even if we referred to "diesel" when filling up a truck, and "parafin" (which, like in the UK, is a name used for kerosene) when filling the Primus, it was all the same stuff; aviation fuel F34. So when the US Army, the USMC and the British Army conduct their Arctic Warfare Training in Norway, every single primus 111 in every single tent is running on F34, because it is readily available from any vehicle, and with no issues what so ever, as it is 90% kerosene. Cheers, and blue flames. T
I only tried to burn diesel once, in my Hipolito 2 with regulated silent burner, because it was advertised as 'modified for diesel', by Force 10, a British Columbia purveyor of marine supplies. The idea was evidently that it could run on marine diesel for those with diesel vessel engines. The only 'modification' I could detect was an extra-large spirit cup, hinting at the need for major priming. Any, it worked, but poorly and with a lot of smell. It's a great stove and has had kero only since...
Sounds sensible. I have never used diesel in any primus-type kerosene stove myself, only in a wick burner, and not with the best results.
