Anyway, Svea was everything but just a stove name, a national emblem. If CR Nyberg was the owner of a so emblematic SVEA name, why he produced from 1894 to 1904, for 10 years, stoves named Victoria and not Svea? Nicola
Hello, being stuck with the previous argument regarding the mistery of the Svea burner in 1897 advertisement I go ahead with some additional informations and observations, that will help dating early stoves. On 1908 catalog 23 all the stoves illustrations and the parts list show the cast iron trivet, that is plain, without any Svea branding: One of the few available examples of early trivet here: Very early Svea No.5 From 1915 new stoves models are added, 30-34, 40-44, and all the economy models from 0b to 115. As seen on the newly added illustrations of these models the cast iron trivets are Svea branded: On 1915 catalog 26 all previous models and parts list obviously still show the plain trivet, but are old illustrations. So at least from 1915 the cast iron trivets are updated and we can use this detail to have a date reference: 1) Trivet without Svea branding pre-1915 2) Trivet branded Svea post 1915 up to 1924 (the 1924 Italian catalog shows in parts list and on new star models the new trivet that is stamped metal) For sure after 1924 there were still available cast iron trivets, probably optional (this would explain why in countries like Denmark are commonly found Svea stoves with cast iron trivets). The next picture will probably explain this: I have clearly identified 2 styles of font. The one above with “bubble font” must be the older one (1915-1924). The one below shows a more linear font, visible especially on the V character. This third version of cast iron trivet must be the newer one and so available post 1924. Not sure if this was already known, but I add this to the informations grouped in this discussion. Nicola
Additionally: it’s clear that cast iron trivets with svea brand could be earlier than 1915, as well the introduction of the new models that are not present on 1908 catalog. So the dating reference is only based on available catalogs. The only sure information is: plain trivets are for sure pre-1915. Nicola
'Mother Svea', patriotic emblem and personification of Sweden - so almost certainly not amenable to having being registered as an exclusive trade mark (although that wouldn't put off some present day transnational corporations!).
@igh371 That was my same thought, but in some way the Svea brand was registered in 1908, as visible on the catalog: But I still think that because the emblematic symbol, the 1897 use of svea name on that stove and adv was both casual and comprensibile considering the national meaning of the Svea word. Nicola
Svea brand was registered in 1908 , well yes. Svea brand was registered in 1908 , also that Svea brand was registered by 1908 , correct? or do you have 1908 trademark filed/granted date(s)?
...do you have 1908 trademark filed/granted date(s)? ... well, that happen to come back to open question from further above. "registered" trademark, yes that's it. Thank you. Patent/trademarks (& those data bases) provide hard dates but have not been a strong suit for me. Carl & Andreas (N&W) or Max probably could not trademark the common/popular word/letters in basic/plain text "SVEA" . That SVEA trademark is the word (vs Primus, Optimus & Radius have their word integrated into or with an image). PRIMUS US however is also just the word PRIMUS, on slanted alignment using unique lettering. So it seems to be with Nyberg & Willander, N&W SVEA, [that tentative year range, to go with 1904 Dec, makes that: 1904 Dec -to- end N&W by 1908 ). the alignment of unique lettering was in use then SVEA trademark it seems is the word on the curved ‿ alignment using unique letters (*large bubble font). Which brings this back to OP and the (1897 - c 1915) SVEA tank details I've been trying to review as time allows. ---------- pardon slight drift. BTW Gottfrid Carlsson Eskilstuna can be connected to the SVEA logo often seen on Swedish mil-spec items: GCE's trademark is the word using unique letters as well as specific underline/overline. No connection to Nyberg / Wallander / Sievert. thanks to all, carry-on 2100 views
@OMC You probably had the correct intuition, Svea has been used in many ways and forms on the stoves: But seems that only the curved Svea with what seems or looks like the “bubble” font worked as “brand name” in a form that is a kind of logotype. A form used in the same way in both 1908 catalog and on the 1930s box label, both used in the form of a registered trade mark meaning: So probably was enough to register the Svea name in this way to lock it for at least the stoves. But… but… but… A logotyped brand name as we have seen on 1908 and 1930s label is used in the same form from the beginning of creation to the end. If it’s true that we recognize the “bubble” font style in these brand names: then we know that the “bubble” font in this form was introduced with the new tank style not before than the end of 1904 with the Nyberg Willanders examples. It’a hard to think that in 1897 the Svea brand name was already registered in this form, unless the logotyped Svea name was graphically updated with the arrival of Willander. Nicola
re your It’a hard to think that in 1897 the Svea brand name was already registered in this form, unless the logotyped Svea name was graphically updated with the arrival of Willander. agree. 1897 ad is not convincing / confirmation NOR can that plain to see "SVEA" be conveniently dismissed. More might emerge, supporting either way, we shall see. 'til then it's 1904 Dec on ewe go. -------- your: Svea has been used in many ways and forms on the stoves true, as had Primus, Optimus, Radius etc. It is the use and presence of their specific exclusive trademark is point here, probably the point from near the dawn of time. Ones sees "it bears the mark", blacksmith mark, livestock brand, mark territory/possessions. Same word used many times many ways many places is beside the point, not denoting trademark/brand. We might credit Max but vintage Sievert Svea branding is stamped into more pieces than any other, ever. ------------------- EDIT for next comment below: @Nicola Francesco Elia, Maker instructs anyone considering said items to confirm their trademark "ON" the item. That's it. once is enough. Other marking for us can be important but the point for makers (Primus, Optimus, Svea Radius etc...) is to check for our trademark, settle for none other (we, our mark is mark of the best blah blah blah).
@OMC So I understand well? Do we agree that the curved brand name cannot predates NW? If that one is the official that would be registered and all the others just an iteration to reinforce the branding? Nicola
@gieorgijewski provided this image some time ago: Fotogenkoket Svea was under the name of A. Willander, so he probably was the owner of the Svea brand at beginning. @OMC @igh371 Nicola
@gieorgijewski could you explain these last three images you added? The “best stove in the world” is present on all of them, is this a Willander marketing concept? Nicola
LAST picture: Show how many text strings "willander fotogenkok" existed in swedish newspapers "by the year". My annotations showing "distributed by Willanders brands" by the years. SVECIA ads from 1908 Poland/under Russia Expected Nybergs stoves - from 1895/7 first known 12-1904 1906 - end of Nybergs distribution by Willanders
@gieorgijewski is this a new information that you have found? I remember that I have read somewhere here that Willander left Svea around the end of 1907. So the end date of NW collaboration is 1906. Thanks for sharing. Nicola
So I should update my previous post like this… 1: Willander Svea stoves 1904-1906 2: Svea stoves with starburst logo and no bottom stamping 1906/7 3: Svea stoves with the PATENT bottom stamping from 1906/7 to the creation of Aktiebol. Max Sievert and Made in Sweden bottom stamping. Year? Nicola
1906 may be the end of the particular series of adverts picked by those specific newspaper archive searches, but it was most emphatically not the end of Willander's distribution of Nyberg's Svea stoves. The Swedish Technical Museum archive in Stockholm has various papers in its possession which belonged to CR Nyberg. One section of these papers is specifically labelled as 'Brev och räkningar mellan Nyberg och Willander 1905-1908' (Letters and bills between Nyberg and Willander 1905-1908). There are also adverts selling Svea stoves taken out by Willander in Canadian trade journals in both 1907 and as late as March in 1908. The new Willander's Svecia adverts begin to appear during 1908. These sources and others can be found in this discussion. @Nicola Francesco Elia
