hi jan, @scouterjan Thank you for your interest here. and thank you Trevor. The Canadian patent is protection, right. It makes it illegal in Canada to produce copies of AGM's patented stoves. In above link, re your: Q> "...Since patt applied for in Canada it would be interesting to see if any were actually sold here... ? ...and who sold them? A> I would only guess yes they were sold in Canada. You have several AGMs, I would look to you and fellow Canadian stovies for any insight you might come up with on that. Q> Also I wonder if the Canadian version was different? A> I don't know. This is circa late 20s maybe well into 30s. The older Canadian Coleman stoves have the labeling in English only mostly, yes or no? If yes, I would think AGM would also sell the same version in US and Canada. I have a question for jan and all, Q> Does anyone have insight / guess as to approx. when production ended for the No.3? thanks again, omc
I'm back, and talkin' to myself again . Re when No.3 production ended, is an open question. For now 1928 or later. We see No.3 still produced in 1928, credit Trevor here . Production could have continued year(s) later. Myself I dunno, hence the question. I will add here as a No.3 recap / FYI: No.3 production run began c1916. About c1916, it's possibly earlier (w/stoves it seems ya never know) but much research has been done re many US make/model stoves. All done seeking earliest examples. From what i see to-date, 1916 is very early iirc, and possibly the earliest related date. 1916 is earliest example from what I've seen so far. source credit @Conny C "From a 1916 AGM catalogue (kindly shared by Neil McRae) ... one "suitcase" stove, the "American Folding Camp Stove Nr.3." No.3 (pre "KAMPKOOK"?). Same link adds that "1923 AGM catalogue you can see several stoves now branded "Kampkook" (incl. KAMPKOOK No.3). I'll add one tidbit, re: How might AGM No.1 relate to No.3 (and timeline)? For reasons we may never know. The No.1 did not precede the No.3. An AGM No.1, is the KAMPOVEN that sits atop of a No.3, No.1 also offered very early 1918 or earlier. thx omc
I have an advert for the No.3 from 1929. In 1930 AGM started producing stoves with the fuel tank mounted at the front. I have no adverts showing a No.3 after 1929.
Excellent. Thank you Trevor. moving on. all, jan, This is a separate sub-topic but is No.3 Q&A related. Bear with me. Marsh states that what distinguishes an AGM No.8 is it's built-on pump seen here. Note the 8's grate is 19 1/2" wide, it's a lot bigger than No.3. It be great to see the nameplate of a No.8 about now. An age old problem is makers using inaccurate/outdated images. Well, my No.3 instructions, here, the actual instructions/text may be applicable but some images match Marsh's No.8 (not No.3). Brings me to your KAMPKOOK No.3 "a little different" (indeed it is), seen here. It has a No.3 nameplate right on it and I assume the tank properly stows inside the case? and case is 14 1/2" wide? right. If so, it may be contrary to Marsh's "what distinguishes an AGM No.8 is it's built-on pump"... seeing your No.3 with built-on pump? So, that's just a lil something else to chew on. Also as you pointed out for us, your grate differs from any 3 or 8 I've seen. There's nothing that says your No.3 is not all-original and it surely is "a little different". It's really quite interesting that. So glad you posted it. thx omc
OK, I goofed (should have skipped my "add one tidbit" above). So about that, here's updated version. Same (updated) tidbit, re: How might AGM No.1 relate to No.3 14 1/2" wide? NOTE: there is > a No.1 "KAMPOVEN" to set atop AGM stove, stove & oven offered as early as 1918. and in c1926 we see there is > a No.1 KAMPKOOK stove 17 1/2" wide. [re No.1 stove from 1919 - 1925 is an open question] Timeline: No.3 stove is featured in 1916 without a No.1 nor mention of KAMPKOOK (or KAMPOVEN). No.1 KAMPKOOK stove, per Marsh site, appears in c1926 AGM catalog. The No.1 KAMPKOOK stove years in production is an open question. I regret bringing up No.1 here (No.3 is confusing enough ). sorry omc
bump old thread Better dating KAMPKOOK No.3 / MODEL 3 production is a work in progress. @Haggis Interesting !!! I want to thank you for this catalog page source This c1924 is a new detail as far as i know (old catalog guru Trevor @shagratork may take notice) it would be even more helpful if we might credit and better ID the source of your dated catalog ??? [[[ Not that it applies here but an aside in general: The more we review/research catalogs , esp. those that relied on illustrations.. the more we see at times outdated illustrations reused and maybe accompanying details ]]] We can run with c1924 barring conflicted details that might arise. SO moving forward with given detail, your MODEL.3 has curved legs and this nameplate " MODEL 3 patented (reissue) , April 4, 1922 " FYI note same nameplate (MODEL 3 w/2 patent lines …1922) was in use on previous versions (still had peg legs, removable top). This is not a conflict, no... what i do believe (as you suggest) this is... This is an excellent c1924 KAMPKOOK dating detail. nameplate source <-- I collated the details and the few 3s i have but that is collaborative effort, credit goes to membership incl. @scouterjan and now YOU kind sir . I think, you've advanced the most current findings (if details hold up... & so far so good). BTW the next example/nameplate in-sequence returned to using "No.3" w/3 patent lines ...1922 (vs MODEL 3) thanks again, omc
bump No.9 is a drift but closely related @Kool Camp Stoves @Daryl , all, Kool posted his No.9 and has had my attention since. It is the 1st and only No.9 i can recall seeing. I am scratching my head as to what is the difference between the 9 and the 3? It may be the burner casting? and maybe also the exact size of case? or? For now, myself, i see no difference (but nearly certain they are different, in some way). I post re Daryl's "I am thinking AGM wanted a small stove back in there line up some years after they quit making No.3?" That is not the case, you too will see with closer look. For sake of discussion, There is a No.3 nameplate that ends with 1922 patent dating and there is a No.3 nameplate that ends with 1924 patent dating. Daryl's is 1924 and nameplates also seen here (there are also No.3s with 1927 patent dating). Kool's No. 9 nameplate ends with *1923 patent dating (*ALSO the 1st and only I've seen like it so far). Re Kool's fine No.9 !! Thanks for posting it. Appears to be original paint, yes? His nameplate, imo, dates his No.9 to c. 1923. --------------------- I have a No.3 pat ends 1922 which is version before the curved legs, i can dig it out but we know it differs from Kool's No.9. I suppose if i did dig out No.3s (out of deep freeze) I could compare other labeling as well. I don't think i have a c. 1924 myself. Closely comparing a c.1924 No.3 w/curved legs and a patent ending 1924 with Kool's 9... "should" reveal difference(s). **I'd focus on burner casting. I say this because there are later AGM models that seem identical but with different burner casting ie the No.99 iirc. **A close look at burners, burner casting/assembly may reveal something. I DOUBT this will make progress but re burners, example my c. 1922 No.3 (no curve legs) the top diameter of both brnrs is 2 1/2" and the distance between burner (centers) is 9 1/8”. That may be all i'll have anytime soon re: difference(s) No.3 vs Kool's Fine No.9, but will remain interested and try to follow. I thank you both for contributing to a better understanding of our awesome AGMs.
To the best of my knowledge my #9 is original paint. I purchased as is except a good cleaning. It works very well to this day, and has been used a few times during the past year since I bought it. Hopefully one day we can find out the answers to the questions. If you need pictures or closeups of some internal detail, please ask and I will help in anyway I can. Reason as I stated in the stove gallery post, was to make this model available to all as there was not one like it posted. ? Mine is a Steel case and on Terry Marsh site it is listed as brass case for seashore or marine use. Is this an incorrect badge that was applied to this stove or is it manufactured before they were made of brass. Thanks again
Other than this bit about the changes in the 1924 model… I haven’t seen any advertisements for the Model 3 after the 1920s ended… “Several improvements have been made in the 1924 model. It is equipped with our new permanently attached folding legs (pat-ent applied for). The steel grate is hinged to the case as is the cover. The cover is also equipped with wings, making a very serviceable wind shield. End supports permit adjustment of the windshield to accommodate large cooking utensils.”
I have a No.3 that is a hybrid of the two on Terry Marsh's site. It has the attached, curved legs but a loose top, windscreen and grate. Black original paint.
Thanks again Haggis, A fine good morning to you chb, Your "3" with attached, curved legs but a loose top is most certainly noteworthy, i thank you for mentioning it. It is a given you are far more knowledgeable re patents than most and myself. If you might get it in-hand at some point.... What is latest pat. date on your nameplate, does it match any from this list AGM KAMPKOOK No.3 Nameplates ? i had pulled a few of my 3s out, another i have set out has this tag, latest pat, date (reissue) Apr 4, 1922: chb, i note, tentatively of 4 now in-discussion (here and other thread(s)), all 4 seem to be within the same few years , A, B, C, D for sake of this discussion: **A my "Model 3", tag just above: (reissue) Apr 4, 1922. peg legs, loose grate and top B your "_____" tag/pat. ... curved legs, loose grate and top cover. windscreen (wings or?). C my "No.3", tag: (reissue) Apr 4, 1922, Canadian ... 225354. curved legs, hinged grate and cover w/windshield/wings. D Kool's "No.9", tag: Dec 4, 1923, Canadian ... 225354 curved legs, hinged grate and cover w/windshield/wings **chb, Please note, FYI: A has an obvious different burner asm vs C & D. Your B burner asm may be another key detail/difference. Kool's 9 burner asm. (in-use on C & D) seen here , C & D have only small rectangle metal plates 1 3/4 x 5/8" on front & back of burner. A has larger (backward "D") plates 2 1/2 x 3" metal cover on front & back of cast burner. my thanks again to chb and all PS Kool's 9 is amidst No.3 discussion due to, so far, it matches the 3s, the only difference, so far, the "No.9" on nameplate Lord help me please
@OMC My data plate is exactly like the one you posted. @Majicwrench Currently in pieces undergoing restoration. Pictures when it's back together. Going through the AMC patents I downloaded I have a patent for a lamp burner filed 3/1916 issued 12/1916, next is for a frying pan with folding handle filed 1/1920, issued 10/1920 then finally patent 1,387,152 filed 7/1917 and issued 9/1920 that appears to be for the model 3. It is stamped REISSUED. Why such a lag between filing and issuing is a mystery, although a gap of two to four years is not uncommon. This patent shows the stick legs. All three list Hans C. Hanson as inventor. Patent 1,476,542 filed 4/1923, issued 12/1923 is the patent for the curved retracting legs. Sophus Rasmussen is listed as inventor. The next stove patent I found was for a two-burner cabin stove filed in 1926 and issued in 1929.
Here are the dimensions for this #9. Burners are 2.5" dia. Burners are 9 1/8" center to center. Box is as follows Here is the hinge for grate and lid. And the burners Just in case burner of stove Hopefully this will help. Thanks everyone.
@Haggis @Daryl and whom it may concern, AGM No.3 pumps have recently come up which i'll add / insert into this chat. I confess I do not yet have grasp of what pump and connector was used when. We'll not assume there was a logical sequence but I do hope so. AGM may have other pump(s) and or connectors beyond what i share below. I do not have earliest 4 or 5 versions, don't recall those pumps or connectors (can maybe check gallery). I have a couple quite complete No.3s, very good chance the pumps still with them are original. Like my: No.3 that has peg legs and removable top Model 3 "patented (reissued) ...1922" and also my 1922/23 AGM No.3 both came with this same pump The pump itself is 8 3/4" long, end to end, from far end of handle to the end of hose barb connector (hose is over the connector in pic, connector sticks out of pump end bout 1/2"). The pump-hose -to- tank connection is threaded. --------------- after that could be Daryl's, his nameplate "No.3" pats. ... [last date] patented Dec 4, 1923, Canadian Pat No 225354 Same pump as above but with a different connector -------------------- after that could be Kool Camp Stoves (which is his 9, just like a 3), his nameplate No.9 also pats. ... [last date] patented Dec 4, 1923, Canadian Pat No 225354 has longer chrome pump connector same type as Daryl's, above -------------------------- the next one has the hinged top & grate and curved legs No.3 [last date] "patents 1921, 1922, 1923 & 1924" could still have same pump/connector as above (and below), might check gallery ------------------------------ and finally... my No.3 with hinged top & grate and curved legs No.3 "patents [last date] 1921, 1922, 1923, 1924 & 1927" came with this pump, it is 11 1/2" end to end: and same direct connection views 1675
update re pumps [list above just might have it covered after all] re my "I do not have earliest 4 or 5 versions, don't recall those pumps or connectors (can maybe check gallery)." I just followed up with this. The 1st ver. 1916 is unknown/unconfirmed. I find the earliest examples on CCS (might be a match to 1916, or is soon after), they have text that flows like a wave. examples are: KAMP KOOK NO. 3 Early KampKook No.3 AGM model #3 credit scouterjan mention of threaded connector, further confirming that type of pump and the threaded connector was in-use: > from earliest known version pre-1920 (1916-1919) -to- 1922/23. > c. 1923 we see the next type connector (non-threaded), and we see a longer pump about same time. That's all there is to it re pumps for the No.3s. maybe just maybe
adding a subtopic: what's in a name... KAMPKOOK (AGM vs PW infringement ?) a point Sam, RIP, touched on: The use of KAMPKOOK name (i delve into timeline (context), changes to letter spacing and format) That was 2014, many more examples and details have posted in meanwhile but topic/confusion hasn't been discussed further as far as i know. For the AGM side (i do not know the PW side), in this thread AGM KAMPKOOK No.3 Nameplates , several related details: -we may as well (for AGM) refer to the No.3 due to "No.3" was AGM's 1st suitcase stove. It may be the 1st US suitcase stove? In 1916 catalog image of American Folding Camp Stove No.3 did not show a nameplate and the term KAMPKOOK was not yet in-use. That and successful AGM KAMPKOOK No.3 endured for decades, the KAMPKOOK name beyond that. - to scroll thru the nameplates in that thread the spacing of the KAMPKOOK letters is peculiar. **This peculiarity may be result of infringement/disagreement Sam had speculated about? 1st use of name (so far) is separate, it's clear KAMP KOOK [fwiw this would be late 1910s] 2nd use of name is combined KAMPKOOK [[re PW, I'm no expert but have seen PW adds to it... "AUTO KAMP KOOK" ]] 3rd use of name is combined and added to... "AMERICAN KAMPKOOK" fwiw this would be c 1920 Then 4th use of name and why I post, beginning late 1921 and into 1922, while the name is underlined (combined that way), yet is the letter spacing combined or separate that is less clear (by design?) letters AMP are clearly together but after the P all the letters are spaced apart? (one word or 2, i dunno) same thing mid 1922 (reissue) we're still in 1922, later in 1922 KAMPKOOK is underlined and letters return to being clearly combined. (not just underlined but underlined with "trademark reg US Pat Office" ) this is, again, the format for AGM KAMPKOOK combined name and how it stays going forward. 1800 views ------------- Open question: who had the last say-so, when/where is last use of name KAMPKOOK I wonder.
