whats the funny topic... RARE stove are everywhere - but mostly are rare - because nobody wants them most WANTED stoves are popular or moderate popular - and thats group was in high prices area ------------ many stoves takes commentary "never seen" upper level then "never seen" - is "till this moment i have no information is it exists" - and that is very interesting... and really rare...
So is there consensus on creating a thread for the "less than 10 known"? I do appreciated what OMC stated and do not want to feed the price chasing that has happened with this hobby/passion/addiction.
I'd be interested in seeing a "less than ten" thread. Just for my own curiosity, but I also see it as potentially helping bring more stoves out of the woodwork and into the established record. It could even be commercialized, person X desperately wants stove model Y and posts a standing offer to purchase said model at Z price, then a stovie in a completely different town may see it and snap up the stove to help out a friend. Previously they never would have known it was anything special and even if they did, may not have bought it out of their own interest. Some hipster would have bought it to poke holes in the font and make a lamp out of it, gone forever. If people want to contribute their own personal info to the thread, they're more than welcome to. If not, that is their prerogative as well and entirely their choice. Pretty much like the rest of the internet.
How about this one? Only one known? Possibly a prototype. https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/maximum-n°1.37733/
Thank you. Sorry it's long. I envision an interesting topic, incl. statements with a lot of grey area . My concern remains as mentioned above. Opinions vary but I know I'm not alone given many private messages on rare occasions when very old sought-after models are found online. In zero instances (of 20 some msgs) were such details open-posted later. That said, others (like thick-skinned Ben, I respect) will open-post live auctions of very rare stoves. The member(s) lurking to snipe said auction, do not want to see it open-posted. People will do as they wish. If this is a go: > I will plea, from the start, consider limit posting to owners presenting stoves they have in-hand. > I suggest you think of wording to discourage the "less than 10" obscure terrible design failures. -and- "Somehow" encourage the sought after models... w/no idea how you do that. The concern I shared above remains. Reminder it is re: "oldest" examples, probably should have mentioned historic examples. For sake of discussion, historic: in sense of how/when (vaporization) designs of liquid fuel pressure stoves developed. [an aside: stoves connected to time/place of historic world history interest me as well (different discussion )]. Thanks again, OMC ------------------- edit: Marc, I carefully read and appreciate your input (including where we, keeping open-mind, respectfully disagree btw). Re your: "...person X desperately wants stove model Y and posts a standing offer to purchase..." CCS subscribers have that in trading post and due to similar concerns messaging/details are private with that method. thx again. ------------------- PS Gieorgi's comment engages topic in friendly way and I had to laugh with him. The topic does seems funny if, from his view, all he's been doing for 3 years is: does his homework re maker/model then does knowledgeable post/inquiry of "never seen" examples (**100 or so by now, "never before seen" by web-collectors). What he's been up to from the beginning, has done it his way, posting examples never seen on CCS. He treated hunteed & hunting post like a blog. Over 3 years, near 10,000 views and 450 comments. **some sought-after examples, many not, most are examples lost amidst eastern Europe's tumult post WW1 & WW2. There are by now probably over 100 "less than 10 known" in link above, many for sale at the time (he finds way more rare treasures than he himself can buy). tag @gieorgijewski
thanks OMC for enlightig my "smile" sign... -------------- For Wim - rarest was ARISTOCRAT - made in Belgium but not cathed by me
What if the thread was to include only what is in possession of/or in the SRG and pictures that are NOT in a live auction? Could something like that work for all?
Thank you again OptimusPrime, Considering my above replies in context of this discussion. Re your "Could something like that work for all?" I'll bite, again. I still do plea consider the "concept" be owners posting stoves in-hand. IF it is to post examples found anywhere (no live auctions) this will find much more support. Sadly, sorry, I do still stand opposed to providing quick & easy list of rare stoves. Probably / potentially on the list little known models, most are unaware of (who do not do their homework). Examples that are ALSO on wish lists of fellow stovies who may be looking for said model for years (w/no mention of it). It would increase comepetition but I do set "prices" aside. It also removes a competitive edge a fellow stovie may have if otherwise little known details are open-posted in convenient list of rare stoves. AND my friend Ben @z1ulike First, IF such a post is created, carefully explaining purpose, scope "how" / what to post will be most helpful. Self managed would be a goal? Your comments leave questions not the least this comment " As more examples surface the list can be adjusted with models having more than ten examples being eliminated." You are as familiar w/CCS as anyone. "the list" … "the list" can be adjusted... <-- *so get Ross to sign-on and volunteer his and mods time? or how? …"with … models eliminated (from "the list") <-- * ditto. So, if OptimusPrime shares your expectation re logistics, it makes no sense to discuss it? Go to private message to Ross and see if it will fly . OR I expect there are ways a thread such as this can self manage. OptimusPrime "I think" you can link the list fromn the other site w/o breaking policy (correct me if i'm wrong). An overdue question, How is that working out? thx omc PS Ben I mentioned you re live auctions in my above comment too, I was remiss to not include an FYI tag to you then too, sorry.
If a list was based on CCS postings alone I suspect it would be absolutely enormous. Take Primus for example, to take only those models which have individual separate sections on the gallery, and we find only 19 models with 'more than 10' examples, but nearly 90 models with 'less than 10'! Then there are all those in the 'other models ' section!! In other words a special 'less than 10' known list could be so huge as to be almost meaningless!
It is also the case too of course that rarity based on numbers alone is not at all the same as desirability. Hence despite the prices they can command at auction neither the Optimus 9 or Borde 'Bombs' come into the 'less than 10' catagory even on CCS alone, and Radius 43, with 41 CCS examples, should clearly be 2-a-penny! Publicly available 'known' data in a collecting area such as ours can be positively biased towards the ''desirable', which people are proud to display, and against the 'ordinary' for which there is no such incentive to show.
I don’t like the idea, and have a great deal of empathy with what Ian has said above. I think it is almost impossible to do sensibly. But the main reason for my discomfort is that it will immediately distort the market with cashed-up “collectors” who have little knowledge of the production values of the pieces, collecting because the stove is “rare”. This in turn distorts the whole market. The conversations in posts here already point to the scarcity of various items for those willing to do the work. Creating a price-target is not what I think this site is for. Tony
Let me add my support to the views expressed by Ian and Tony above. I was not in favour of the introduction of the Valuation service on CCS and I see the introduction of a “Rare Stove” lndex as just another step on the slippery slope towards an Appraisal based focus for this much-loved Site. Just my opinion. Best Regards, Kerophile.
Members tend to get what they want, within reason. Personally, I was against having an 'Auction Watch' forum. I was also uneasy about having a 'Valuations' forum. You might have noticed that CPL has neither of those forums.
I like the idea. It will be a long list but I doubt it would have any effect on valuation. There isn't much correlation between rarity and price. Rare stoves are often undesirable stoves that were commercial failures with limited production runs. Listing undesirable stoves won't make them valuable. Really old stoves with few surviving examples are also rare. Some of these can be valuable to a small group of collectors. The price of such stoves are determined by auction sites like eBay not by listing them. Desirable stoves are commercially successful, have long production runs, and are not rare (think Borde or Svea 123). These would not make the list. Desirable stoves made for a limited market can also be valuable (think Fuhrmeister No. 8). However being desirable, these stoves tend to survive in larger numbers and would not make the list. Ben
