Hi The new to me 4M arrived today and I'll post here to further the knowledge/discussion around the two 4k-transistional? stoves found in NZ and posted previously. I saw this online and immediately saw the similarities with boogy's and my 4 K-transitional stoves from down here in NZ, the posting of boogy's stove confirmed mine wasn't an orphan, and I think this stove is another transition between the 4k and final full production 4M. I can't get the burner assembly out yet and have the screws soaking for now, but quick look over shows these similarities to our 4k-transitional stoves 1) manifold and burner assembly are the same and mount the same 2) secondary burner has 9 rings as per my 4k-T, Main only has 8 at inspection, it is missing the top flat ring. 3) tank is everdur, non magnetic, 3 piece fuel cap and clipped pump assembly Differences 1) stove legs are as expected on early 4M 2) fuel valve knob is red vs previous black (would like to know what year colour change from black to red? And these knobs aren't the bright red from much later stoves and lanterns) 3) secondary burner control is a red knob vs previous pressed steel key 4) windshield restraints are slotted flat bar as expected for 4M rather than internally mounted wiggly wire of 4k and our 4k-T. So that's as far as I've got for now till the mounting hardware frees up. This one has had a touch up paint job at some stage so I think I'll go full strip, panel straightening and repaint. Will need to replace the missing flat burner ring, but at least this one has its grate. So to me, another interesting stove, which again could be a Franky, but I feel as I did with the 4k-T it's original and more likely a development stage stove, and another oddity sent down to NZ? @OMC @Boogy Cheers Barrett
Congrats Barrett, Yes, 2 very interesting developments down under. Changes are made during production (different versions/variants of same model) <-- this vs transitioning or "transitional" anything . IE you've got an early 4K with cast burner asm and now a 4M with (same?) cast burner asm. Both excellent stoves. Both of the NZ 4Ks are early versions, seeing no model# and wind screen brackets. IIRC our theory was the cast burner asm. placed your 4K as possibly the earliest version but seeing a 4M that also has a made in Canada cast burner casts doubt in the theory that the cast burner made that 4K the earliest 4K. So, 2 4Ks and a 4M with cast burner asms. all found in NZ. During our discussions of these, Canadian members have commented. 4Ms are very common in Canada. Now that the 4M is in the mix, if (so far) a 4M with cast burner asm. has never been seen in Canada.... that would seem to be a clue to something. I am at a loss to attempt to explain. It has been said that Australia & NZ are basically the same economy. I wonder, will 4Ks & Ms w/cast manifolds emerge there too? Pure speculation: a distributor placed a large special order. In this case Aussie/NZ distributor, being told about a new model, says "I like the cast burner assemblies. I'll take 200 of your new model but only if they come with the cast burners (not that new crap hehehehe) but again I am at a loss to attempt to explain it given, (only in NZ so far), we see 2 early 4Ks and a 4M with cast burner asms. thx omc
Barrett, Boogy, While this detail is still fresh for us, re: band a blue "...secondary burner has 9 rings as per my 4k-T, Main only has 8 at inspection, it is missing the top flat ring." It sounds to me like you have figured that correctly. It will be interesting to hear if Boogy counts rings on his 4M (don't have to disassemble to count them), if his is still 9 rings on both? Reason: early cast iron burner asms. (both 2 1/8" dia.. both same), both had 9 rings. Vapor/flow to 2nd is less than to the main if for no other reason, increased distance increases resistance.. pressure is reduced the farther it is piped from source. On later models the 2nd burner is different/smaller than main. I have a 419 w/cast burner asm. both same 2 1/8 burners, it has 9 rings on main and 7 rings on 2nd burner. I'll guess, restricting 2nd burner in this way delivers same performance or maybe better? If Barrett's is missing a ring, he might consider going with 7 rings on 2nd burner. thx omc
@OMC @Boogy Excellent boogy, that shows all 3 burner assembliss obviously left Canada like that, rather than having been toyed with afterwards. OMC, thank you once again for your research and knowledge, and for sharing it. Good idea to drop to 7 rings if I need too, I've been on to Coleman NZ about any spares, not hopeful but pleasently helpful, and I will contact someone I know who has been cleaning out a estate collection that may have some bits, it's where I got the early 4?, and their saving another old copper coloured tank for me too. Any idea when knobs were swapped from black to red? Probably as close as I'll get for a date on this 4m. Cheers Barrett
Yeh looks like it. Wife’s shaking her head right now!!!.you will have to give me a few days to get it.
Well done. Take your wife somewhere and cook a nice meal on a stove, mine understood the practicality after doing that a few times and has slowly come around to the fact that of course I need more than one lol
Disaster! Didn’t get get the 4K. Couldn’t come to a deal on postage. And couldn’t be bothered driving to timaru.
I'll just add here that I decided to clean this one up since it had already had a few touch ups. Electrolysis followed by primer and then Rustoluem Hunter Green for the case, VHT flat silver for burners and grate. Leaving tank at the moment to show its age, that may change. Have another 4m inbound with the steel burner assembly, will be interesting to see what tank is made off. I'll get to the bottom of 4M production yet lol
Thought I would add some new to me information that popped up on a thread over at the Coleman Collectors Forum, and for me answers my conjecture of Canadian Coleman possibly exporting "specials" like those that have been found here in NZ, and now elsewhere. The CCF thread was discussing a unique Coleman 4m that had a plague on it written in German identifying it as an 4MX, this stove found in Idaho has the accepted steel burner assembly and generated some interesting discussion regarding the German plague provenance and other features. Amongst the thread replies, CCF member Mantleburner64 posted pics and information of an unfired 4m stove he acquired last year from a gentleman that had helped decommission a Canadian military base in Germany in the 80's and brought the stove home with him to Canada. This stove is complete with paperwork, including a separate parts list, which identifies the stove as a "4MX for export" complete with CI burner assembly. The stove case is only embossed as a 4m. I contacted Mantleburner64 asking permission to copy his pics here to CCS and also asking what material the tank was made of, he hadn't checked whether it is magnetic or not and will test it when he has time to pull it out of storage. Mantleburner64's stove can also be viewed on Terry Marsh's website and appears identical to my 4M stove above. Coleman Canada stoves – later models Whilst the parts list shows just Coleman casted on the burner manifold, the pics on Terry's site show that it also has "Made in Canada" as seen on my and other NZ found 4 series stoves with CI burner assemblies. Mantleburner64's 4MX had been added to Terry's site after I had stopped banging my head over the NZ found 4 series stoves, as such I had missed discovering it until Mantleburner64 posted on CCF. So this finally confirms that Coleman Canada were exporting "specials" to markets with CI hardware after these materials had been discontinued in their domestic market products, and that the 4K's and 4M's with CI hardware and Everdur tanks found here in NZ are (almost?) certainly as assembled and exported from the factory. As such I believe my 4m stove in this thread is also a 4MX export. Many thanks to CCF member Mantleburner64 (thanks John) for his CCF thread reply and for allowing me to copy and post his pics here. Here is a link to the original CCF thread. Anyone seen a plaque like this on a stove before? - The Coleman Collectors Forum Thank you to all CCS members that have contributed to and considered my conjecture on the NZ found 4 series stoves in the threads here at CCS I have enjoyed reviewing and discussing the possible history/provenance of these Canadian stoves with their interesting production oddities that challenge the accepted norm until proper production proof surfaces. I now await for another CI equipped 4K WITH supporting paperwork identifying it as an "4KX for export" model to be unearthed and explain our NZ found 4k's Cheers Barrett @OMC @Boogy
Thank you for sharing this enlightening revelation @Barrett ! From parts list: The Coleman Camp Stove 4MX for export is equipped with a cast iron burner (coming off of a Toronto production line). The example is a German 4MX, thanks and credit to CCF member Mantleburner64 for EXCELLENT content.. Permission has been given to post his pics here, I take liberty to add the additional nameplate attached "... inside of the lid..." of the 4M case. given that ^^^ This particular 4MX is designated to Germany vs eXport (elsewhere). For site search and clarity the text on brass plate is: Coleman COLEMAN - CAMPING - KOCHER 4MX NUR FÜR BENZIN ! PTB Nr. III B/E - 7991 FWIW the brass plate was added to adhere to German regulation. 4MX exported elsewhere might only have had the 1 page insert (seen above) / packaging to indicate 4MX. It would have been most helpful if Everdur tank was also specified along with the CI burner asm. -------------------------------------- The PTB acronym is a layer of complexity (German regulatory aspect). Such a permanent notation / badge / stamping was required for particular items to be sold/distributed in Germany. " PTB Nr. III B/E - 7991 " is a dating clue but presently confusion reigns re timeline for those German bureaucracies: CTR, MPA, BAM, ??? and PTB... re when (years)?, what acronym and code (stamp) was required. 900 views
Hi @OMC Just for clarity, there are 2 very different 4MX stoves contained in the linked CCF thread. The German text plague belongs to the first 4MX posted in the CCF thread by CCF member and thread OP Mr M, not member Mantleburner64's CI equipped 4MX posted later in the thread as another 4MX example. Mr M's German plagued 4MX is a unique stove, whilst it has the accepted steel burner assembly as seen on CA domestic 4m stoves, it has additional features not seen on any other Coleman stove, some investigation by member Erwin suggested that the PTB number relates to their role in testing new products introduced to the German market, this may explain the additional features only seen on Mr M's plagued 4MX, additional features which may have been required for PTB approval? Mantleburner64's 4MX stove whilst having been originally located in Germany at a Canadian military base has no German PTB plague or other evidence that it was solely designed and destined for the German market, moreover the fact all literature is in English suggests that it was intended as an export destined for English speaking nations. Being left behind at the base through to decommissioning suggest it was CA military property rather than private property, so probably procured by the CA Quartermaster, the fact that the selected stove should be a 4MX with CI hardware rather than a Canadian domestic market example is interesting, I can only speculate that selection was based on the superior materials used in the CI equipped 4MX as later acquired by Mantleburner64. It is Mantleburner64's 4MX that I believe proves that the NZ found 4 series stoves demonstrate Canadian Coleman production of export specials for their international/Commonwealth markets. Mr M's 4MX appears to be a very specific design intended for acceptance solely into the German market after PTB approval. Cheers
I acquired a stove on Saturday that is labeled exactly like your example. The case says COLEMAN 4M CANADA but the inside lid has the brass plate with the same details , 4MX Nr PBT and numbers and NUR FUR BENZIN. The model I have has a propane bottle and hookup but was originally gas. Any ideas on age etc and value? Any help is appreciated.
