Several revelations have emerged on-topic. Back story: I updated Sam's thread :Evolution of the MSR XGK..." this provided some clarification and collated the many 9 / XGK timeline details (that were all-over, confusion reigned) into ONE comprehensive list. In Feb 2016 I said of that list, then: For 4 years there was nothing significant to add. NOW there is and here we are. I have 100% certainty that nearly all of this (cut from that thread) can be carefully updated/reworded: > mid 1974 Model 9A begins (model 9 end), **9A circa 1974, per * & **sources > March 1975 Model 9MF begins: Model 9MF appeared in Mar 1975 newsletter. (NLT March 1975) > March 1976 Model 9MF appeared in March 1976 newsletter, issue 11. > June 1976 Model 9MF MULTIFUEL STOVE Instructions, dated. (also 9MF end is mid 1976 per *source) > June 1976 Model 9DF DUAL - FUEL STOVE Instructions, dated. (also 9DF begins mid 1976 per *source) > March 1977 Model 9DF appeared in March 1977 newsletter, issue 12. > mid 1977 9A & DF end, per *source [ mid 1977 Model G & GK begins (per *source) ] > ...... 1978 Model G and GK introduced, bakelite base, per ** & ***sources > April 1981 Model G and GK begin use of aluminum base (use of bakelite base ends) NLT April 81 > November? 1981 Model X-GK begins -------------------------- Why? what revelations (AFTER above list posted): > 9 / 9A / 9MF sequence can be clarified, revisited > probable earliest known MF (prev. said to be a bitsa on CCS). today Unfired MSR MF just my opinion but this example seems more than worthy of further consideration credit @anfeng . IF this holds it's place as earliest MF > @hikerduane had long ago shared his early MF (thought to be among the earliest MFs) > next? > there are later/last versions of MF > one would think above line defines 1st DF, sadly this remains elusive, it seems likely circa June 1976 there was NO physical difference between the last MF and 1st DF. ALSO worthy of further consideration. > early/earliest X-GK > next X-GK version ------------------------------- a simpler list: "2 models were offered concurrently: from 9A then was 9A -and- 9MF or MF Multi-Fuel 9A -and- 9DF or DF Dual Fuel then G -and- GK …." in the past this simplified list was not in-question. Might it too be revisited? =============== Models: 9 onto XGKs (white Gas and Kero etc models), in hindsight, seem to continuously improve/develop (vs "new" model rollouts w/many stove makers). An unfortunate result we may continue to find it difficult to ID the very last or very first versions of particular XGK models. On the plus side, AS more examples emerge we CAN better define specific changes that were made (model development / improvements) and attempt to align those changes within tentative timeline. MANY of those specifc details have emerged in this meanwhile as well. -------------------- My hobby time is limited (peak workload) but I did want to toss this out there for addl. discussion in stove forum (not to drift in reference posts). I'll catch up when I can. carry on
this is a place for on-topic Q&A, discussion, conjecture, chat. @anfeng you shared with us a sequence of 9 to 9As (5 versions) MSR Model 9～9A and today, new to you early/earliest Unfired MSR MF [fwiw this example was briefly discussed/criticized when it sold at auction] reviewing the 2 threads, would it seem there might be an update to your 9As? : ie *new 9A0, 9A1, 9A2, 9A3 (maybe 9A4). The multiple versions is exemplary of " XGKs (white Gas and Kero etc models),in hindsight, seem to continuously improve/develop". would there maybe be another (*new) in-betweener 9A or 9 version: > after fiber base 9 > before smooth bell 9A May 1975 there may well have been a > scalloped 9A (or last 9) with early bakelight base (may also have the small riveted tab/brkt). I'm not yet 100% convinced your new earliest 9MF is all original but, myself, i would review that more closely and see if indeed it is likely that it is all-original? I lean that way today before delving deeper into it. ------------------------ BTW the small tab/brkt on your 9MF is also on the 2nd No.9 in your other thread AND this brkt detail appears in several other examples elsewhere and as more examples emerge, that small detail may end up being a reliable dating clue. [and I'm late for service call, : ) ]
THANK YOU @anfeng you have scored some amazing (and historical) XGKs. I think it's fair to question "1974?" your latest 9A1 example has Oct 74 (9) instructions but was purchased new in July 75... 13 months after (what we thought) was when the 1st 9A came out. As suggested above, I am wondering if we may yet see a 9A0 (using your naming scheme), pre-1975. my web time is limited i'll try to keep up. carry on.
@OMC Thank you for your contribution to MSR's early furnace research. In the absence of physical evidence for the existence of 9A0, it remains to be seen.
In 2011 no one made sense of this example but, now, it too may be worth another look: source: MSR Overview (from Outdoor Retailer 2011) this too "might" have that tab? and has Oct '74 instructions with it source: MSR #9 - 1974
@OMC Due to language limitations, I never quite understood what you meant by tab. I think I understand now that this is an easy detail to overlook. Until I saw this, I thought the aluminum tab was only available on the MF.
thanks Duane, yes sort of and the context well established/adopted here (originates from MSR Model 9～9A ). ============= moving past that Thanks again @anfeng... no worries, you are engaging this Q&A discussion I started, I say keep on as you are . We are thankful for your *tremendous effort (i know it is not easy to present, in English, new (to site) examples). ALL your input is excellent, on-topic and always upbeat, friendly positive (we need more of this, not less). As for language do as you have been doing it is *impressive and appreciated. Over 95% of the time English language speakers/writers have NO idea English is not your native language. Not perfect, no one is, myself being FAR from perfect/proper. As for my comments difficult to understand: we all have our strengths and weaknesses. Written word is a weakness for me. I will continue to post as revelations, different viewpoints occur to me (same with gieorgi and others). If only "proper" perfect wording were posted we would lose enormous collaborative efforts that post revelations on a regular basis, "proper" is not required. I encourage all to make effort to post if they have detail not yet understood within our hobby. Carry on.
we may have... it seems we do have similar challenge with model change from 9 to 9A (9MF) as with 9MF to 9DF. With, current focus on the 9 -to- 9A (&9MF) changes, the lines below I'm sure can be carefully improved for accuracy (with what has emerged in meanwhile): "> mid 1974 Model 9A begins (model 9 end), **9A circa 1974, per * & **sources > March 1975 Model 9MF begins: Model 9MF appeared in Mar 1975 newsletter. (NLT March 1975) > March 1976 Model 9MF appeared in March 1976 newsletter, issue 11. > June 1976 Model 9MF MULTIFUEL STOVE Instructions, dated. (also 9MF end is mid 1976 per *source) > June 1976 Model 9DF DUAL - FUEL STOVE Instructions, dated. (also 9DF begins mid 1976 per *source) > March 1977 Model 9DF appeared in March 1977 newsletter, issue 12. > mid 1977 9A & DF end, per *source "
Note 1: those with relevant experience of mass production of product lines that are constantly (relatively, rapidly) changing. We do NOT assume major parts of companies are on the same page at the same time. > sales (brochures, catalogs, letters, announcements, "new" ads) > actual production as product develops/changes > operations: packaging (instructions, repair kits), shipping. Ok, a pivotal time for MSR instructions/packaging ("packaging") is July 1975 when there are BOTH No.9 dated instructions packed with 9 (or 9A?). this detail can be improved ( members thought (mid 75-on) were 9As, right or wrong) and No.9MF dated instructions with No.9MF. the MF seems clear enough (YET the 1st production 9MF had already shipped before the pivotal time of July '75, yes? "Note 1" is directly applicable to this situ AND more detail is covered below). --------------------------------------- anfeng you have sought -out and acquired crucial dated examples . my time is limited (or i could mention more) You shared 9MF ordered/shipped May 1975 Unfired MSR MF early bakelite base, scalloped bell, MF flat-top gen (bare) and rivetted tab/brkt.. May 1975, clearly packaged as a 9MF BUT MSR had not yet included July 1975 9MF instructions AND had not made announcement/availability clear to all final sale retailers. so again, yours May 15 1975 MF: > early bakelite base, ...scalloped bell, MF flat-top gen (bare) and rivetted tab/brkt.. closely resembles MSR exhibit/museum example > fiber base, ...............scalloped bell, MF flat-top gen (bare) and rivetted tab/brkt.. image above "MSR Overview..." the museum piece that most definitely could be prototype (we can not assume production, which it would not be a "version of" 9MF). your 9MF being (kind of) preannouncement would seem to have that museum example as it's predecessor. my earlier: "I'm not yet 100% convinced your new earliest 9MF , is all original but, myself, i would review that more closely and see if indeed it is likely that it is all-original? I lean that way today before delving deeper into it. ALL of this YOU kind sir have advanced this topic with key dated documentation (we are lost without you : ) )... simply amazing. Am i missing something with this? ---------------------------- we CAN better define specific changes that were made and separately: the "#22 - 100" on your 9MF bag certainly begs a question.
thinking outloud, tentative updated sequence >> *earliest known No.9 * MSR Model 9 White Pump Square Knob meanwhile No.9 development is ongoing. Later No.9s differ significantly from 1st known, still just: >> early No.9s . Among several changes, if original: short pot supports on early 9s are easy to spot. The white pumps as well and no rivetted brkt. (not yet). A year/date attempt of the last white pump (describe) shipped and 1st pump-yellow 1 (all yellow) shipped, will help here. fast forward to 9/9A & 9MF next the list shows TWO models, >> each line item shows TWO models side by side ie 9 ]---[ 9MF. MSR production of two XGK models (9/9A & 9MF) had begun. Predates May 75, prototype? MSR Overview >> No.9 (or 9A) ]---[ **No.9MF prototype ie: **fiber base, ...............scalloped bell, MF flat-top gen (bare) and rivetted tab/brkt.. predates May 1975 anfeng's No.9, shown 2nd in line MSR Model 9～9A w/pump yell1 (all yellow) >> *No.9 (or 9A) ]---[ No.9MF ie * fiber base, ...............scalloped bell and rivetted tab/brkt.. etc. predates May 75 tentatively Steve (thinking No.9, then) MSR #9 - 1974 , w/pump yell1 & No.9 Oct 74 instructions. >> *No.9 (or 9A) ]---[ No.9MF ie * fiber base, ...............scalloped bell and rivetted tab/brkt.. etc. 1975 May very early 9MF Unfired MSR MF , shipped from MSR May 15 1975, labeled 9MF, w/pump yell1 & No.9 Oct 74 instr. >> No.9 (or 9A) ]---[ **No.9MF ie: **early bakelite base, ...scalloped bell, MF flat-top gen (bare) and rivetted tab/brkt.. and NOTE early bakelite base with center screw burner attach ... etc. after May 1975 tentatively MSR 9A 1974？ point of sale Jul. 7 1975, w/pump yell1 & No.9 Oct 74 instr. >> *No.9A (or 9) ]---[ No.9MF ie *early bakelite base, ...smooth bell [without center screw, without rivetted brkt..] @anfeng can confirem if this is exact match to his term 9A1. late Jul 1975, we see 2 sets of instr. July 1975 "MSR MULTIFUEL" and July 1975 No.9 (which by then, we thought, would be "9A" (nice if it showed "9A", "note 1" again) mid 1975 (Apr, May, June, July, Aug, Sep) Duane's early MF Unfired MSR MF w/pump yell2 (pins) & Jul 75 instr. [i presume]. >> No.9 (or 9A) ]---[ **No.9MF ie: **early bakelite base, ...smooth bell, MF flat-top gen (bare) i'll leave off there for now, rough draft, CORRECTIONS UPDATES ENCOURAGED. Another reason to hold off is from moment 1st production MF shipped until the last DF shipped (also means 1st G & GK) there were many changes (along with much confusion some directly from MSR). Above may be a challenge to sequence the changes, i expect it gets more intense going forward (not for everyone). Thanks all those who read what i present/suggest. ---------------------------- an FYI: subsequent Instr. FYI: '76 Jan "9A", '76 May MULTIFUEL June '76 noteworthy for MSR instructions, all three: June 76 9A June 76 MF June 76 DF 225 views
