Why all MSR Internationals are NOT equal!!

I remember that post, but I don't recall taking much comfort from it.

....Arch

 

@snwcmpr , Ken if that was their rational, they could have use a fusable plug of Wood's metal or Darcet's alloy and solved the problem. It works on my acetylene cylinders with no worries.

Murph

 

I don't know, I'm just remembering the topic.
If it was that bad it would have been replaced years ago. I've never had a problem with them.

 

Hi, All,

Sorry to come late to this question about MSR pumps. Actually, at the first OSG, many years back, Drew and Steve, from MSR, came and camped with us. They also attended my seminar on the history of the first MSR stove offered for sale, the #9, and they brought lots of excellent goodies for our raffle at that event. Furthermore, they offered a seminar on the then new MSR Whisperlite Universal, and we got to enjoy that, and play around with that stove, too.

According to them, MSR purposely designed the pumps to melt and vent pressure out of the fuel bottle, rather than continue to build up pressure, ending in an explosive discharge of heated, highly combustible fuels!! Makes perfect sense to me, and regarding metal pumps, I've seen more than a few of those leak like sieves, and have other faults, like the bottom disk of metal that holds the NRV in the Optimus Nova, and other stoves, falling off the pump tube, rendering the pump worthless until fettled!!

@Murph , I have NO idea where you got the idea that MSR pumps were garbage! I've been using them for many, many decades, and with only a few exceptions, the pumps have worked just fine, and quite safely. I've had one melt-down, with one of the crappy pumps that REI redesigned when they bought MSR. I only change gaskets and o-rings when needed, which is seldom more than once a year, or once every few years, depending on how often the stove/pump has been used. Properly installed and lubed, MSR gaskets and o-rings last a very long time. Careless use, or downright abuse, and well...... the user/abuser did it, and not MSR!!!! I stand by MSR pumps, and recommend them highly, as long they are either brand new, OR one of the wonderful older ones that can still be rebuilt and used safely. STAY AWAY FROM THOSE MADE BY MSR AFTER THEY WERE BOUGHT BY REI!! By and large, THOSE were crap, and very, very unsafe!! For what it's worth...... Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

Just being curious. Did MSR claim the Whisperlite was primarily for white gas & kero when there was no alternative at the time it was first marketed.
Brass wire around the generator loop would increase heating area and more fibreglass in the priming cup to soak up more alcohol to get it good & hot. Which does not matter if the latest version is absolutely fine.
I was tempted by a Whisperlite when looking in GoOutdoors. I didn't pull the trigger than and glad I didn't as they are still selling the 2nd verion (2012) & not the Universal. This is what their Web site says.

 

?

 

Greetings, @Primus 96 ,

Yes, indeed. The V1 of the Whisperlite Internationale (note the "e" on the end, which was later dropped!) was marketed as a true Multifuel stove, with kerosene listed as a proper fuel for that stove. That's why we bought it in the first place! Please note that there was NO internet, back when we bought our V1 WPL, and everything we were told came from either catalogs, reviews in Backpacker Magazine, or better yet, from the knowledgeable staff at the backpacking stores from whom we bought our gear!! We had first tried the Optimus 00, but back then I had no idea what I was doing, and ignorantly bought Mautz Firepaste to prime it. That stuff was worthless, and did not allow us to fire the 00 easily as does liquid Meths!! Had there been a CCS, back then, we would have known better, and would have happily used our 00 for our entire trip! Tried the X-GK, too, but whilst it would prime, and run on kerosene, quite happily, it was FAR too sooty and messy for our tastes. Again, had we primed with Meths, we'd have been just fine, but we did not know about that, at that time. So, we tried the WPL Internationale, V1, as it was touted as both priming and running fine on kerosene, and as we'd bought about 40 gallons of Water White, K1 kerosene for our trip (you could legally send kerosene in the US Mail, back then), we wanted to keep using that fuel.

Here are some photos of the original box from our V1 Internationale, which shows how that stove was (incorrectly) marketed back then:













You can easily see that "kerosene" is listed as a proper fuel for this stove. As I wrote in the beginning of this thread, however, MSR tech, Mike Ridout, later admitted that they never intended for that stove to be used with kerosene on a steady basis, despite their advertisements to the contrary!! I hope that clears it up for you, but if you have further questions, please let me know. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

PS - As I've written before, there is NO need to buy a used V1 Internationale, when the V2 version is so very good, and very reliable with kerosene!! Buying a V1 is a total waste of money, period!

 

I too started out with Firepaste, I think based on the REI catalog add at the time. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn’t.
Ivan

 

When I referred to the GoOutdoors Web site I meant that they mentioned the Whisperlite they were selling was not the Universal version.

Copy & Paste from their site:
MSR WhisperLite International Camping Stove (2012)
Discount Card Price£94.50
Retail Price £105.00

They must have been caught with a large inventory of the 2012 version.

The amusing thing was that at times they didn't always have the fuel bottles as well as the stoves.

Q. Will the Universal Whisperlite burn Propane? Just wondering if it was possible, I didn't mean whether it was safe to do it.

Looking through the used Whisperlites for sale I saw one V1. The cheap price caught my eye & then I saw the fuel hose was a darkred/brown braided type & the pump is grey body with black fittings.

 

I used that firepaste for the 123R I had in the 70s/80s.
I know so much more, now that we have this site.

Ken

 

Hi Doc,

Thanks for all the advice I have gleaned from your posts over the years.

Last year I bought a used Whisperlite International. It only came with the stove, black and grey pump, a basic maintenance kit and the manual, which has the same artwork on it as the front of the box you show in the above photo. While it has a braided metal fuel line, I've always suspected it was a first version stove with an upgraded fuel line. I asked MSR in an email, but got no response. Does my assessment sounds about right to you?

 

Howdy, Kyle (@Kyle Raines ),

Thanks for the kind words! As to your questions, of course, it's hard to be sure. But, a few things to consider. Back when MSR was actually doing conversions, and V2 Whisperlite Internationale had not been designed yet. Regarding the black and grew pump, I don't put too much stock in what pump came with what used stove, unless there is some sort of hard documentation, i.e., MSR instructions which shows that pump. My personal viewpoint is that MSR would not have upgraded a V1 WPLI stove, as they usually would just send a new stove, for a nominal fee. The ONLY stove that MSR upgraded to the newer braided brass fuel line, was my first MSR FireFly. Mike Ridout, who was the head stove tech at MSR back then, did it for me, as a favor. Also, since the generator loop on the V2 is much larger, it would not fit in the actual burner of the V1.

So, to wrap it all up, I'm guessing you have a actual V2 stove on which some parts "may" have been mixed and matched (the pump). Or, you have an early V2. Have you burned kerosene it it often? How did it work for you? How about some photos, please? Talk later, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

@Doc Mark
I have burned kerosene and unleaded in it. Once primed it worked well with both, but I must admit, as much as I would like to be using it on the side of a mountain somewhere, this was only in my garage.

I found unleaded to be horrendously stinky, but I'm in Canada and according to Coleman, Canadian auto fuel has too many additives to work well in Multi fuel stoves, which might account for the smell.

I'm quite the wannabe backpacker. I've always wanted to be into backpacking, but either family or health has always kept me at just a dayhiker.

I'll try to get some photos of the Whisperlite and post them in the next few days.

 

Pump gasoline is never good, except in a case of dire need. Use Coleman fuel when burning petrol.

A day-hiker can carry a stove, and cook lunch! Have done it myself many times. A good way to start....

 

@Doc Mark
Here are some photos as requested. As you can see I purchased a new pump after acquiring the stove. The manual does appear to be for the first version you described at the beginning of this thread, looking at the fuel line depicted. I don't know if the original owner got a replacement stove, or if they were just using up old manuals. Either way, it's a good stove.
I'm currently waiting on a Mini Trangia that is soon to join my collection. I already have 8 camp stoves as it is. But they all have their benefit and I can never pick a favorite. I think the Trangia will work well for dayhikes as I already do exactly as suggested by @Ed Winskill even though my wife thinks I'm crazy

 

Hi, Kyle, (@Kyle Raines ),

Well, those instructions do look to be from the first version of the WPLI. I guess, if the former owner did send it back to MSR, right before the V2 model came out, they "might" have put the new parts on your stove. Either way, for all practical purposes, yours is now a V2 model. I know that "back in the day", MSR did offer a replacement fuel hose for the regular Whisperlite, as I have one of those, still NIB. But, I never saw one for the WPLI V1. I may have to disassemble my V1, and one of my V2 models, and see if the old and new parts interchange. However, I'm so far behind in doing things already in the que, that I'm not eager to add another fetting job. It should be easy, though, so who knows? If I do decide to go ahead with that experiment, I'll post the photos and results here.

Good job in getting a new pump, Kyle! Very well done, and now you can use your stove, confident that it will work wonderfully for you. Just be sure to remember to lube the o-rings when assembling it for use. Thanks for the photos and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

hi all, today i received what i think is either a whisperlite classic or an internationale 500, the only differences being a K jet and fuel-cup wick


it is stamped msr083, which i take to mean august 1993. note; the 'green' and white mountain logo on the black bag, the skinny classic generator and the short 100mm brass weave fuel-line and lack of a fuel wick

it came with an internationale 500 parts kit, which had the unmarked G jet and a visually identical jet stamped K for kerosene. leather cup washer, little clips for the fuel-line lock arm and fuel bowl wick


the instructions for the maintenance kit mention that the dark grey pump with red parts was from 1995....so i presume this kit was purchased in 1996?, well after the 1993 burner...

as Doc discovered, just changing the jet wasn't enough and a few years later in 1995? MSR released the internationale 600, with the bigger generator loop and 'blue' and white msr mountain logo on the bag