If there's anyone from MSR listening, it's time to introduce a new stove model

I don't really think I am.

Here's a thread that I stumbled on awhile back when I was searching for Simmerlites. Didn't realize, but it's actually one you started:

MSR stove - Unique

The stove in question was one of Larry Penberthy's personal prototypes. It's an early Simmerlite with a second valve at the burner. Even includes a K jet, but as you found in your testing the generator is too thin and out of the flame zone to work well on kerosene. Seems like a relatively simple design update.

Clearly I'm not the only one who has pondered "wouldn't it be great to have a lightweight stove that is both silent and simmers".

The Svea 123 came out 70 years ago and simmers beautifully. I have several of them. Primus was making silent burner stoves in the 1930s.

I can understand something like the XGK (which I own way too many of) being a roarer and not simmering - it's purpose built to be an indestructible burn anything snow melter. But there's a place for something more civilized too. I would say MSR largely agrees - they made the Whisperlite (quiet), the Dragonfly (simmers), the Simmerlite (lighter weight), they just never combined all 3 attributes in one stove (though the prototype shown above means they clearly had the idea and at least tried at one point).

Anyway, I didn't intend this to be a super serious thread, more of a "wouldn't it be cool if they...." one.

 

They were old hat by then, having introduced them in 1897 and patented them the following year.

 

@Rich_S
I hear you. But, it didn't work for some reason.
I quit trying to get it to work. It's been sitting for 4 years.

 

yeah, why not solid metal lines? even a 5 mm steel brake line is not something to consider "expensive". flare and removable would surely increase safety!

 

Only major problem I have with MSR is the introduction of the flexible fuelline on XGK.

The XGK'S with the fixed/stiff fueltube is the perfect middleway between the boxed stoves like 111 and the modern ones. You can lit a XGK outside the tent, carry it around as you like. No modern stove could do that expect the real XGK's. I really hope for a comeback but I doubt that will never happen.

The EX for me is no real XGK, its just like other stoves on the market.

 

The stove described in post 1 is called an Optimus 11 Explorer

 

just put a Lindal valve on it

 

For MSR it does seem they have all the pieces. Swap out a silent burner on the dragonfly and you've got it.

I have a whisper light and a dragonfly and have a used xgk arriving shortly. Antarctic surplus is selling them for about $30. Couldn't pass it up.

 

Where I'm ending up is Whisperlite Universal with the included Lindal connector + Primus Ergo pump.

It's a little heavier than I'd like (comes in at 13.5 oz) especially since the Ergo pump is 1.3 oz more than the Duraseal, but it ticks all of the other boxes - multifuel, silent, simmers.

So maybe the real question is why doesn't MSR just switch over to Lindal connectors on all of their stoves/pumps? Primus has done this with the Omnifuel/Omnilite, Optimus with the Polaris, Firemaple and all the Chinese knockoffs have gone this route too. Allows any stove to work with any pump and also gives you a built in simmer valve.

 

Maybe they are not fans of creating more waste with empty butane canisters.
Liquid fuel means reusable containers.

 

They probably also place high importance on backwards compatibility and supporting legacy stoves. If they change the pump, they would have to start stocking yet another type of pump, while they already have two. They probably regret designing a different pump for the dragonfly.

If they make a pump with a Lindahl valve, they will also need to revise the fuel line, which is too stiff and too short on most stoves to support the use of a canister. Even the Universal with its longer fuel line is on the stiff side. People will also try to use them on older stoves with a short and stiff fuel line and it won't work well.

They probably think they have already designed the stove requested in the original post with the Universal, even though it lacks true simmering ability. I think it is more likely that they could revise the control valve design to improve its simmering ability. But the next limit on simmering would be the design of the burner head itself. I have found that there's a limit to how low you can go and still have a stable flame regardless of bottle pressure. I don't know why that is the case, because Coleman, with a similar type of burner, can go much lower and still be stable.

 

They could just make an adapter that is a legacy male connector on one end and a Lindal female on the other end and include it on all new pumps to allow people to still use old stoves with new pumps. Or do the opposite and make a version of the WL Universal adapter than can attach to old style fuel lines.

 

Sounds llike a good business prospect for you

 

I think we are all underestimating the work involved and overestimating the market.

The Dragonfly is a simmering XGK-II. It's the same bell and jetting.

To achieve the simmering capacity it has the following changes:
Thermal block base vs generator loop.
Valve (and cleaning rod) to base. This means at low heat and low flow there is longer dwell time in the evaporation space.
Pump with auto-shutoff on removal. This is a necessary safety factor since the stove can be shut off downstream from the pump.

It's hard to see how a quiet head, simmering, would generate heat in the thermal block. It's flat out doing it in a generator wrapped around the flame.

And you need to step back and remember what these stoves came from: dehydration causing problems in people surrounded by frozen water. Their original design, and their continuing demand, is driven by the ability to be consistently seriously hot, for a seriously long time, at serious altitude, in serious cold.

 

"Be the change that you wish to see in the world."

 

I have a slightly bent up XGK-EX, and a cheap eBay dragonfly that I've started playing with. Trying to merge the two, using the XGK-EX case and legs, with the generator tapped into the side of the Dragonfly's control valve tube.

I'll take pictures and post it in the Frankies forum.

 

Silent burners are slower to preheat and loose more heat in high winds. These stoves were always designed for serious outdoors enthusiasts and they dont care if morning coffee wakes the team on the other side of the mountain. They should also be up making coffee

 

The corollary is nice too, I forget who it was - “One person can make a difference. But they probably shouldn’t”. LOL

 

Have you considered Primus stoves?
Omnilite ti with silencer, Gravity II MF and Spider seem to have the properties you're after. Can't speak from experience though, just what I've read about them.

I have a couple of omnifuels and a BD-cap, they fit all but the weight limit of your criteria.