As said in the heading I have an Optimus 199 that works perfectly but I’ve noticed two flames coming from where two of the 4 tubes join the burner underneath. I can’t see any holes as such but it looks like there’s small cracks causing the leak. I’ve never brazed before but have had a look around on YouTube to see how to do it. I’ve got a flux coated 55% silver brazing rod, is that suitable? I take it normal soldering wouldn’t be suitable there because of the heat. Just got to get a suitable blow lamp, but which one? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Dave, There are plenty of old threads to learn from and numerous members ready to help with advice. I had what sounds like a similar problem with a 111 which is covered in the latter half of https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/pinhole-leaks-in-111t-burner.52618/ -R
Yes that’s what I’d guessed. I’ve never brazed before so I’m watching video’s etc and trying to work out what I need. Doesn’t look much different to soldering, more heat obviously. Just hope I’ve got the right brazing rod. Shouldn’t be too complicated.
You probably want a lower silver material. If you ever needed to de-coke the burner by heating your 55% silver one might melt before the burner gets hot enough. In the thread I mentioned above I used rods with melting points of around 700C. -R
I use 30% silver brazing rod with a good quality silver brazing flux, with heat supplied by a gas torch using MAPP. It is very important to ensure the area to be silbrazed is scrupulously clean to ensure a strong repair. Pharael.
I agree with the above recommendation.... But would just like to ask would it be possible to post a photo of the area? I did this myself... It needs to be just as @Pharael stated clean clean clean. I posted my adventures on the fettling forum for all to see haha. It's not hard to do... But for the first time it was quite the adventure!
That being said, if you know where the cracks are, then that makes the repair somewhat easier. Pharael.
I did take a photo but it was pants, I’ll have to have another go. I’ll also look around for some 30% rods as recommended. I’m pretty sure the cracks are right at the joint underneath the burner. I can’t see a pronounced hole but there obviously is one, well two actually right opposite each other. I was watching one of Berniedawgs video’s on brazing that’s why I went for 55% but if less silver means the melting temperature will be higher then that all makes sense. I’ll start in the new year, I’ve just purchased a cheap Baby Enders so I’m looking forward to upping my fettling game! Thanks for the replies and tips guys, hope you’ve all had a good Xmas and all the best for the new year.
Well geez, I'm usually the radical one in these types of discussion and now I'm going to be the Nervous Nellie! The reason I say that is this can be one of those insidious yet innocent looking repairs when you start into it. A big issue is you can get carbon contamination in the base metal and that can cause all sorts of pinholes and issues. It's not something insurmountable but I wouldn't recommend this as a first brazing project. If your stove is a user, I'd suggest first just trying to smear a trace of stove cement into the cracks or maybe just sodium silicate applied with a watercolor paintbrush. Then if you get the urge to try brazing you can go destroy a bunch of less important stuff first! However I can also confess that I've done a lot of stupid shit in life that I was told not to do because it probably wouldn't work by people much wiser than I so I won't take it personally if you want to take the challenge! I see you live across the pond from me, if you have a friend in the states who will be visiting you I'd be glad to mail him some appropriate brazing rod that he could hand carry to you. Another option is if you have a trade school nearby one of the welding instructors might find it to be an interesting project that he could demonstrate to a class as like I said it could be more complex than what it first seems. Anyway, let me know if you'd like some rod somehow, and good luck! Mark
Hi Mark, that’s the kind of constructive reply I like. ( not to belittle the other replies) Sodium Silicate or stove cement are great ideas as I do prize my small collection of stoves. I could try brazing something a little less loved I suppose as and when the opportunity arose. I’ll look into it now you’ve suggested it as I’ve never heard of either, although the vertical flames that come from below the burner are about an inch long so would cement or the sodium be strong enough? Only one way to find out I suppose and would they stand up to the kind of heat that IRM mentioned in his reply. Would your two suggestions be just a temporary fix? I’d written my shopping list out for brazing and found some 30%ag rods and decent flux but I might give your suggestion a try first. I do prize my 199 above most of my other stoves and it’d be a pity to ruin it.
An issue is that IMHO how we humans learn is by making mistakes, then we know what not to do next time! Anyway, since all you are doing is sealing up hairline cracks I think sodium silicate might be a lifetime repair and I'd try that first. I mentioned stove cement earlier but that wouldn't work as well its just more convenient to find. Would definitely look uglier. Plenty of places to purchase it online but it is also sometimes used in pottery glazes so if you know a potter ask them if you can mooch a couple cc's. A syringe would make a good applicator and storage for the rest in case the repair only lasts a couple years. Now, if you are wondering how to do an affordable, lifetime, and museum grade repair I'd suggest looking for a short jewelry making class somewhere and talk to the instructor as they would have the perfect equipment for your repair and hopefully more in tune with the cosmetics in looking nice as opposed to just glopping a repair to stop a leak. Afterwards be sure to bring your stove and kettle and make tea for everyone! Don't get me wrong, brazing is not rocket science but there IS a learning curve and the smaller something is the less forgiving. Good luck and as always have fun! Mark
Hi Mark, Sodium silicate it is then. I’ll start my brazing learning curve on a lesser stove. If there is such a thing. Kind regards Dave
Don’t discount the “traditional” approach of brazing. As a complete novice (my skills are keyboard based) I managed what sounds like a similar repair (after practicing a bit first). -R
That was my dilemma, I haven’t totally discounted it but I’m airing on the side of caution and will practice a bit before I attempt it on a decent stove. Regards Dave
Sodium silicate (waterglass / silica glass) can withstand high temperatures for sure. However, once cured it can become brittle…not good given the fact the copper burner tubes will expand with heat and then contract as they cool. The other point I would make is that copper is a non-ferrous metal. Sodium silicate bonds better with ferrous metals. If the sodium silicate application fails, a subsequent silbrazing repair will not in my opinion provide an effective bond with any sodium silicate that remains. No doubt @fire bug will be able to confirm his personal experiences of using waterglass as an effective stove burner repair method, but for me, I have always silbrazed. Pharael.
Wow, makes sense. The silicate stuff is pretty expensive anyway and I’m not in a rush so I may as well do a more permanent fix first as last. Right, so, practice then when I’m confident enough I’ll braze it. Right, that’s the plan! Clean, clean, clean, decent flux and 30%ag brazing rods. Got my eye on a Rothenberger super fire 2 and mapp gas and a few fire bricks. Hopefully that’ll do the trick. I’ll try and take a few snaps and stick them on the fettling forum when the time comes. Looking forward to it now. Thankyou everyone for all the replies Regards Dave
