The M jets work fine on my other 111B's. They won't work on this one. I have a set of fine drills from Lee Valley. My caliper work on the jets leads to different results than above. The .008 drill fits through all my jets The .010 fits through 2 M jets but not two others. It also fits through the G jet for a 123R The .012 fits through none of the M or G jets but I reamed out the largest with this drill by hand and gave it a whirl It will go at full blast but when allowed to simmer for a while it will go out and not relight unless the match is under the fire ring. Even then it will need to heat up before going. the hiss of gas will blow out the match at times. Again the air fuel mixture seems off. My next smallest drill is .016. The alcohol jets are .020. I don't think going to .016 will help as the burner appears to burn slightly less well at full bore with the 0.012 jet as it did with the 0.010. I think I might be going down the wrong road. There is no water in the stove, no plugged burner no plugged tank no plugged fuel screen. Increasing the jet size led to no improvement. The 0.10 jets will work on my two other B's. I am a bit stymied.
Hi North 61. You must feel like throwing in the towel! Stoves can be incredibly frustrating at times. Johnsnz has done more experiments on a reluctant Op 111B, than any man I know. He said: That means he used a jet aperture of just under O.016 inches, so it might be worth trying to open up one of your jets to that size. You have little to lose. Are you are absolutely sure that all the carbon and crap has been cleared out of the burner/ valve? If so, and the fuel is clean, and getting to the jet, then the only variables that you have left are the aperture size and the flame ring (these are very important on a 111B burner, and I can't get my 111B to operate without a proper, well-positioned flame-ring). Nil Desperandum. Best Regards, Kerophile.
Hi, I tried the following ( before landing on the jet size) and I assume everything else on the stove is working as it should.... NRV pump tank cap seal strainer cleaned out etc etc etc. I gripped the flame ring in a pair of pliers and moved it upwards off the flame ring gallery brazed onto the burner. Once it was lifted ( and the resultant air fuel mix was altered) the stove would operate at all 'throttle' settings well... For a while I thought I had a bung burner with the flame ring gallery brazed on in the incorrect position.. However with the correct jet size the flame ring can sit on the gallery correctly and all is good... Think about what the stove is saying to you. The stove operates well at full throttle ie the fuel air mix is at it's richest and the flow of fuel available at the jet orifice is at maximum and it goes ok. Turn the stove down and you're reducing the fuel available at the jet orifice as the burner cools the flame becomes unstable and the stove will not relight as the amount of fuel in the fuel air mix is not enough to support combustion. If the path for the fuel from the tank to the jet orifice is clear then the only thing that can influence the fuel air mix is the size of the jet orifice. Have fun.... Cheers John
I'll try making the jet a bit bigger.... like was said,,,I have little to lose and can always turn the M jet into an A jet if it doesn't work.
Well at .016 the stove won't light at all and the match is blown out every time . This is better than the explosion of flame I half expected but not very satisfying. For now I have a parts stove.
Hi, North 61. I dont have any 111 stoves, or experience with them, but i wonder if you have tried placing a shim under the flame ring to raise it up & change the air fuel mix. As an old auto mechanic,i felt that a lean mix was the problem, & since you have tried all the same things i would try to increase fuel flow, then i would next try decreasing the air in the mix. Is the flame ring the same dimensions as your other stoves? this might be something to try. I hope you arent rolling your eyes after having tried this allready. Another thought that comes to mind is perhaps a channel in the burner was never drilled properly, & is too small, but i realise that with optimus quality control this is probably unlikely. Hope you get it figured out, Brian.
To tell you the truth I have a 111C that works great as well as two 111T's. I also own two 111B's that are perfect. This cranky B is keeping me interested and teaching me a lot about the tribe. I'll get it running or understand why I can't.
it might seem a daft idea but have you tried fitting the burner to a different tank ? maybe there is something amiss with the fuel pickup inside the tank maybe a pinhole or crack allowing pressurised air into the fuel pick up that could make it run lean, sounds a bit far fetched i know but you seem to have tried pretty much everything else so might be worth trying, if nothing else you will know it has to be the burner if it still won't run
That is EXACTLY what I was just going to say. He's tried every possible jet size, the tank is obviously holding pressure, and the 111B burner is a simple stem burner so there's unlikely to be a problem with the burner itself. I'm thinking a broken pickup tube is the most likely cause now. The reason the vapor blows out the match is because it's just air. The reason the stove works relatively ok at full tilt is because the heat is vaporizing fuel in the tank. I think this really might be it.
Mmmmmm.... Remove the jet and cleaning needle. Pump up the tank with fuel in it. Crack open the valve. You should get a good flow of fresh clean fuel out of the burner.... keep naked lights away during this process. If fuel is getting to the burner then it's unlikely to be issues with the pick up tube or the general flow to the burner IMHO... No fuel at the burner..... then begin investigations.... Cheers John
hi there johnsnz i don't think it will be a broken pick up as that would let fuel through until the fuel was level with the break,but if it has a pinhole near the top of the pick up it could be pushing air through that,on a low setting the air would have a major impact as the pinhole would force enough air through to make it to lean to burn ( edit and would explain it running in fits and farts,air bubbles in the fuel supply ?) but on full flame the pinhole would not let enough air through to badly affect the running,i could be wrong but it was what redspeester said that got me thinking about a small leak of pressure rather than a major break,it makes sense to me but we will have to wait and see if it is a pinhole or crack,or something else,it's worth a try if nothing else
I wish I could find a schematic of the inside of a 111B tank. Is there a source? Also..thanks for all the ideas this is a great forum!
hi north61 are you filling the tank right up? because if so i can't imagine the pick up would loop to the height of the filler and if the pick up is totally submersed in the fuel no air can get in,if you fill it right to the brim and it still doe's the same thing i think you have something else wrong , you have got me and it's not even my stove
After all my testing over the last day it was nearly run empty! The test on the largest jet size was with a nar empty tank. Filled 1/2 full it sits on simmer like a champ and on full like a blow torch. Maybe 0.016 is ok? I'll test it on simmer with an emptier tank but I might have her on the run.
Hacksaw the tank in half... check the fuel pick up for cracks and pin holes (take a picture so we know what the fuel pick up looks like ) If there is no pinhole or crack in the fuel pick up then that's not your problem.... Or whip the burner off of a good 111B fit it to the tank of the bad 111B if the stove has same problems then it's the tank.... investigate further if stove works as intended than it's the burner....investigate further....
OK Smart Azz you may have been right! In fact I am now worried that I went to far. I just boiled 2 cups of water in 1 Min 45 Seconds ( faster than even a 3 burner coleman and the fastest time I have yet experienced). Flame splash from the burn dances perilously close to the fill cap. I had visions of a pressure release and the fire department called. Fantastic area heater though! Might go back to another jet and make a slightly smaller opening with a wire and valve grinding paste. These small drills have fairly large jumps between them as even .002 is quite a bit in this game. Or I could keep it as is for bragging rights to the fastest 111B in the North.
seems a bit extreme that's what i suggested in my first post mmmm sounds like it was fuel problem after all if you need to go back a jet size after filling the tank what ever it was,nice one that it's now working
