MSR Model MF - Finally Exposed

With a little research and a little guessing, we (hikin_jim, doc_mark, and I) have determined that this fine little stove is the MSR Model MF. Here is the topic of discussion that we had: What is this MSR stove's model?

We could be wrong but the evidence is overwhelming enough to say that it is the Model MF. Plus, we love to guess at these things!!

So we expose it here for all to see.

sam

 

A few flame shots...

 

Nice. Flame on.
8)

 

Fabulous! Really great, Sam. And thanks for the really beautiful flame shots. All that cherry red.

That stove has character. Quite the score.

Now to find a shop towel to wipe the drool off my key board.

HJ

 

Morning, Sam,

Outstanding photo essay, Sir!! Very well done, and enjoyable!! 8) I will be posting photos of my 15 early MSR stoves as soon as I can, with photos and information. Probably won't do as well as you did on the photos, as time is just not there, at this time of year. But, I'll start with what I believe is a later #9, and also my Model MF, which is similar to yours, but a tad earlier, then progress through the other stoves in this family, ending with my X-GK EX. GREAT family of super dependable stoves, in my opinion, and one of my most favorite!!

Again, well done, Sam!! Thanks for sharing your MSR Model MF with us! Oh, one question, if I may? How does it simmer? I've found the earlier stoves in this family do a bit better job of that task. You can cut the top out of a large tin can, to use as a simmering plate, if you want to. MSR used to furnish that along with the stove, as you will see when I post photos of mine. I think I have two, or three, stoves that came with their original simmering plates. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

Morning guys!

Thanks for the nice comments. The stove is very powerful, although I did not raise the temperature of any dihydrogen monoxide, I'm sure it would have done it well and in short order.

As for simmering, on an earlier test run of the stove, I found that the MF does that really well. Maybe it has something to do with the tube and coil arrangement.

Doc, can't wait to see your find essay(s) on the 15 MSR stoves. It will be a really nice treat to see and read through all the info and things you have to say about them. I would be happy to provide any help you need on that, photography or otherwise. (THIS SO FUN!) Anyway, it'll be a great endeavor for you to get into and for us to watch it unfold.

Well, gotta go boil some more water...

sam

 

Quick question about your identification... Have you asked MSR? Last year I wrote them an email about getting the fixed pot supports for my older XGK II and they couldn't have been nicer. They sent me a set to replace my original foldout supports (like the ones on your stove pictured) for free. I also happen to have a 15 year old MSR Waterworks water filter that's only seen light duty and I was curious about what replacement parts might still be available. They were happy to tell me exactly which current model parts are drop in replacements for the parts in my filter. They actually didn't try to sell me anything, and made no suggestions that I upgrade any of my old MSR stuff. They seem like a fine bunch of folks.

 

Greetings,

Most of the folks at MSR are very nice, indeed. Unfortunately, many of them have very little knowledge about the older MSR stoves, and unless you get lucky, you are not going to get the parts you might need for the older stoves. Of course, it never hurts to ask, and like you, I've had outstanding luck in dealing with the service folks at MSR over the years. They used to have a few permanent techs that could answer every single question that came their way, and also completely rebuild your older MSR stoves. However, for the most part, MSR no longer maintains a stock of the older parts, so getting some of them is hard to do. Back in the day, when my first FireFly stove developed a fuel line leak, as ALL of them will do after hard use, MSR completely upgraded the fuel line, with the new version, and soldered the entire thing perfectly, for only $30, which I thought was a great deal. Unless that has changed, they no longer offer that upgrade, and would prefer you dumped your old FireFly for a newer MSR offering. Bummer, as the FF is really a far better stove than the WPL series of stoves, in all respects. Just loud.... but, that doesn't bother me, at all!! 8) Overall, the folks at MSR will do their level best to help, unless you need parts that they no longer have in stock. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

Really? Yours simmers? That's unusual for something in the XGK family. It must be the flattened geometry of the generator on your stove. The flattened geometry would keep the flame close to the generator even when the flame was turned down low. Just compare the generator geometry of the GK and XGK stoves to the geometry of your MF. It makes sense to me that your stove would simmer better.



Kind of ironic, assuming I'm correct, that MSR has the capability to make a reasonably good simmering stove with the reliability and simplicity of the XGK but doesn't seem to realize that they've already solved the problem. It's like they just accept that their liquid fueled stoves (except the dual valed models, the Firefly and the Dragonfly) just don't simmer even though some of their older models did a reasonable job of it (e.g. your MF, my pre-shaker jet Whisperlite).

HJ

 

It is a very unusual stove. It really does burn differently, although similarly to the others. It has to be the loudest and hottest of the ones I have. It also has a really good simmer flame, found this by accident as I was turning the stove down, the flames stayed blue. Stayed that way for as long as I wanted, at least 3 or 4 minutes on this run. The other ones don't do that. They turn yellow after half a minute or so.

I'll have to do some boil tests for comparison on power output, but then again, I'm probably splitting hairs since all the MSRs I have are fire-breathing dragons(flys)?

sam

 

Hey, HJ,

Actually, most of my early MSR X-GK family of stoves simmer, too. It wasn't until MSR dumped the sintered brass surge filter, changed the jet design (around the mid/late 1980's), and dumped their outstanding yellow pumps, that the X-GK's lost their ability to simmer. Also, the simmering that they used to do will never compete with the FireFly or DragonFly stoves, but it is definitely usable for cooking. When you add in the tin can top that MSR used to include with those early stoves as a simmering plate, along with the other capabilities for simmering that the Old Timers had, you can do quite well.

When I post the photos of my collection, I'll include some of the various parts that allowed the earlier MSR stoves to do better than the later X-GK's can do. Hope that explains it a bit, but if not, give me a shout, and I'll give it another try. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

P.S. I took an older X-GK (May 1981) apart today, and have it soaking in the "sauce" right now. Someone changed the pot supports to the "X" type, at something in the past of this stove, and I decided it was time to see what it can do! I'm betting, as it has all the other stuff that helped the older stoves do better at simmering, it will be a screaming monster, that can also simmer in a usable fashion. More later.....

 

Fascinating. So apparently when MSR went to the current day "shaker" jets, their stoves ceased to simmer well. Or so it would seem based on my experience with Whisperlites.

I suspect the pump has a bit less to do with it. I've been able to get my old version (pre-shaker jet) Whisperlite to simmer with every version of the MSR pump although it's a bit harder with the current (i.e. the Duraseal) MSR pump.

Not sure about the impact of the sintered brass surge filter.

Hmm.

I must say all this talk about the XGK line has been MOST interesting!

HJ

 

Evening, HJ,

Actually, in 1987, when I bought my very first X-GK, brand new, it was a dog, right from the start, in so far as it would not get even close to MSR specs for that stove!! And, it would not simmer, without using a regular simmering plate. I exchanged it for another one, which performed marginally worse. However, once I got over the fact that neither would boil water in 3 minutes, I grew to love that stove! It worked, easily, and without any problems, at all. I used it in the mountains, deserts, and at high altitude in the snow, Winter camping, and it never failed me, nor even burped! It worked perfectly on Coleman fuel, and also kerosene, and that stove is still perking away, all these years later, without a single mishap, other than the original gray pump tabs breaking after many years.

Then, I got other X-GK's, and you know what? All of the later ones, like my original one, had the same problem. They could not even get close to the MSR specs, nor could they simmer, despite what my Backpacking Guru, the late and very great Colin Fletcher had written about them. Turns out, he was writing about the earlier X-GK's, and not the one I had purchased! So, Master Fletcher was correct in his glowing praise of those stoves.

Later, I got my very first GK, and guess what: it was more powerful, up to spec (FINALLY!!), and it would actually simmer, too!! Hummmm..... Now, I have quite a few of the earlier stoves, all with the yellow pumps, and all with the sintered brass surge filters and early jets. ALL of them are more powerful than my first two X-GK stoves, and all others from that same period which have passed through my hands! AND, all of them can simmer, too, which the later, pre-Shaker Jet X-GK's' could not do. So, the problems have little to do with the Shaker Jet design, as they precede it.

So, just going on my own experience, I still believe that the yellow pumps, brass surge filters, and early jets are the reason the earlier stoves are not only more powerful, but also can simmer better than the later X-GK's. I prefer those early stoves, though if all I had was my original '87 X-GK, I would be just fine, too!! Just my own experience, but going back quite a few years, with a very common result in all cases. So, I stand by my comments, based on my long experience with these stoves.

Time for dinner, so I'll close for now. Talk to you later, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

P.S. I, too, love to see all the interest in the older X-GK's and earlier MSR stoves!! But, with all that interest, the prices for good older ones will rise, too, which is, actually OK. Time for the best stoves to shine, and not their sometimes less capable replacements!! 8)

P.P.S. Just remember, all you folks that now are seeing how good the old MSR stoves are, I had long ago called "dibs" on the very first Model 9 that comes to light!! So, if you end up with it, please send it along to me, and all will be perfect!! 8) 8)

 

Hey guys!


Nice discussion on these MSR stoves. It's interesting, Doc, that you say the later XGKs don't perform as well as the earlier ones. I have a couple of later XGKs (I believe one is a shaker jet) that still performs unbelievably but you are right don't perform as well as the GK or G or MF for that matter. Boil times are a little longer, relatively.

Now here is an interesting tidbit about this MF. I did a boil test of one litre of water in a ceramic kettle, a Le Crueset to be precise. The kettle is a really nice kettle if you are using it on a conventional stove. It's quite heavy and keeps the liquid warm for quite a long time. With these features, as you already know, it takes a while to bring water to a boil using this kettle, although not too bad.

I did a boil test with cold tap water at about 60F, 1 litre, 4700 feet elevation, ambient temperature at 30F, no heat reflector, no windscreen (no wind), no lid on kettle and used kerosene and Coleman Fuel. The results were very surprising.

I tried kerosene with the existing jet just for grins and found that it performed well at about 5:15 to get to a rolling boil.

After I emptied and cooled the kettle down, I refilled with tap water, same temp, and used Coleman Fuel to run a second boil test. The result was quite disappointing. It took 7:50 seconds to bring the water to a rolling boil. Something was wrong.

I realized that the jet must be a kerosene jet with the smaller aperture. So, I borrowed the jet from my Model G to see what would happen. I went through the refresh steps with the kettle and tried it with Coleman Fuel again with a little more than a litre of water in the kettle. This time it scored 5:50 to get to rolling boil. At this point I was sure the original jet that came with this stove is for kerosene and that I don't have a jet for gasoline other than the jet I can borrow from the 'G'.

I didn't realize the difference in flame size until I compared the flame photos. Very nice.

Here are some pics...


Here's the flame on Coleman Fuel and the 'K' jet. It looks relatively anemic compared to the other shots.



Here's a shot with kerosene and the 'K' jet. Nice and powerful flame.



This is the stove running with Coleman Fuel and the 'G' jet. Nice and powerful.



One more shot to complete the simmering discussion above. It is quite happy simmering.



I'm sure if I used a heat reflector, windscreen, and a better kettle, the times will be shorter. The relative times are what are interesting at this point. It makes a difference using the correct jet for the correct fuel.

have a great day,
sam

 

Cool, I want to get a GK. There's one out there, but only has one original support.

 

Dear Sam,

You really must stop posting all those lovely flame shots. I'm about to get in my car and drive all the way to Idaho this very day just to see it in person. REALLY nice flames.

HJ

 

Morning, Sam,

I may have some interesting news for you about your old MSR stove, and will share that will you soon!! (Said Doc, "Teasingly"!!) 8) With the arrival of my early #9, I do believe that I have the key that unlocks some of the mystery behind this early family of MSR stoves! More soon....!! I think you will love what I have to say about this! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc (still learning, all the time, and hopefully, for many, many years to come!)

 

Doc, the tease.

 

See!? It's not just me. Now hurry up with that write up, you tart.

HJ

 

Always the tease!!!! I've been conditioned not to look at Doc's posts if they don't have a paper clip by them, now I'll have to stay away from all of his posts!!!

HJ, he's a tart, all right, but neither a Pop Tart nor a Sweet Tart. Maybe a Tard??? Bless his heart.

Just kiddin' Doc!!!

sam