2 burner Optimus

Discussion in 'Mystery Stoves' started by n2666s, Apr 18, 2014.

  1. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi Lou, I understand that you are working with what you have but it would be good if you could get the needle valve of the burners to seal before you do much more work.

    You do not have access to the seating, but you can clean and re-face the cone on the point of the spindle.

    Do not remove too much metal, but try to get a smooth-faced, regular cone. In the past, I have put the spindle in the chuck of a drill and once running, held a fine-grade sharpening stone to the cone. Be very gentle and check frequently to ensure you only remove any surface damage, and the minimum amount of brass.

    Once the regulator works, it makes life much simpler as you can then leave the tank pressurised when not in use.

    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.
     
  2. n2666s

    n2666s Subscriber

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    [/u][/color], :? ,

    George was wondering about this as have worked on car valve seats and was wondering about what tool and angle I needed to use ](*,)

    Lou
     
  3. BernieDawg Banned

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    Lou, trust me on this. It is exactly as stove-master Kerophile says above in post # 301440 . The man knows what he is talking about on this. There is no need to work out some venting system until you have the stove operating properly.

    Here is a before and after of a Svea 123 spindle tip I recently repaired for a client. The stove would not shut off before I repaired the spindle. I did exactly what Kerophile recommended you do above. You can do it, too. It's not that hard to do.

    1401053593-P4280056_-_Version_2.jpg 1401053575-P4280060_-_Version_2.jpg
     
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  4. anlrolfe

    anlrolfe Subscriber

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    That just proves that you should mash it in harder........... Not!

    Is there any way the valve seat should be dressed to receive the new valve stem?? If it needs to be cone with a tub faucet shouldn't it be good enough for a camp stove???

    AR
     
  5. n2666s

    n2666s Subscriber

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    yep; the one on the right side on this frankie did not look as bad as Gary's resurrection :.
    it is done :) was very conservative on the amount I took off will wait till dark to light her up;
    Lou
     
  6. n2666s

    n2666s Subscriber

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    lit her up and a fairly decent flame pattern; not satisfied though on the right burner ](*,) appreciate comments, advice and suggestions; cheers;
    Lou
    1401078407-2014-05-25_22.59_after_facing_the_needle.jpg 1401078427-2014-05-25_22.57_after_facing_needle_valve_2.jpg
     
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  7. BernieDawg Banned

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    Personally, I like what you have going on the left. :thumbup:
    The right? Seems rich (too much fuel, not enough air) to me. Funny thing about two-burner stoves is that people generally tend to favor the right burner. The right can wear out faster for that reason.
    'Twere my stove, I'd swap the two jets. If the yellow flame moves to the left burner, then it'd be safe to guess that the jet orifice on that jet is overly large (i.e. - worn out) and you could consider getting a new jet. CCS site sponsor Base-Camp has them as do A&H (eBays "bella10202") and some of the Korean/Japanese eBay vendors (eBays "world_wide_2009" springs to mind).
     
  8. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi Lou, I have never tried to re-grind the needle valve seat of a regulated burner and don't have the tooling. However, I have re-faced many spindles and that has always improved the sealing operation.
    If you look back in this thread to the cut-away regulated burner link you will get a good idea of the internal lay-out of these burners.
    I guess these burners are regarded as consumable items ( like brake discs on vehicles) by most users and they would be replaced or traded in when they started to have problems.
    Nowadays these burners can cost upwards of 150 US Dollars each, if you can find one.
    Best Regards
    Kerophile.
     
  9. n2666s

    n2666s Subscriber

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    Gary; brilliant :clap: will do that this evening and see :)
    George; thanks again :) much prefer to repair what I have, labor does not cost me ;) and can replace consumables; cups, seals and gaskets + I truly enjoy repairing and getting these old girls going again, maybe not much on polishing; but I do use them a lot; had 3 going this morning fixing breakfast for my crew and not adding heat to the home..............keeps the utility bills down + get to enjoy the wildlife running in the trees above me :)

    Lou
     
  10. n2666s

    n2666s Subscriber

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    1401163100-2014-05-26_22.37_after_reversing_jets.jpg

    Gary; you were right again :clap: ; switched only the jet from right to left and........now the left one does the sputtering yellow flame thing although the cap glows a cherry red but methinks it might be more 'cause it has more kero coming out; any recommends for a very fine/small aperture jet?; was thinking in the order of carb.or injector jets where you can go up or down in sizes;
    thanks in advance;
    Lou
     
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  11. BernieDawg Banned

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    OK, Lou. Well, I don't know anything about adapting some sort of other jet to make it work, so I reckon you're gonna be on your own with that. As I said above, the smart move would be to go get a still-available replacement jet from one of the three places I mentioned above. I believe you want the 2509 jet. Time to spend some money on that stove of yours I reckon. ;)

    I also think you need to get some more pressure in that tank. Unless you are the love-child of Robert Bruce Banner and WWF wrestler Chyna, you're not likely to get that tank over-pressured and you are likely to see a more robust and better-formed flame pattern. You could do 40 strokes in that big tank with no issues, imo.
     
  12. n2666s

    n2666s Subscriber

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    George; was wondering the same re: recutting the seats; was thinking that you had to have some "special" tool that I was ignorant about :)

    Gary; following your suggestion checked on couple of places for the new jets but they are have them listed as "sold out" ](*,) but did order 4 from one of our vendors; this old girl MUST have had a LOT of use to wear down/widen the jet opening :?
    Lou
     
  13. n2666s

    n2666s Subscriber

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    the new jets should be in today; there are two frankies like this listed on the bay out of bulgaria?, wow; we must have dropped a lot of these medical sterilisers over there :) .........ww2 am guessing as the army ID plate has been removed on them and I was not aware of any that were not U.S.Dept.Of Defense....but am open to more knowledge:)
    after I get this one sorted out I feel it will be a very good user; the ones online look a heck of a lot nicer than this one AND one has a really nice flame pattern :)
    seller states he will NOT ship to the USA :?
    Lou
     
  14. BernieDawg Banned

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    A&H does show sold out. But, the other two references I gave you show them as in stock. I did not misinform you.

    Glad you were able to get them from somewhere. I look forward to seeing this stove running correctly.
     
  15. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr Subscriber

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    Just a minor detail, the supports expand out at an angle and are held in the slot of th piece on each corner.

    Ken in NC
     
  16. n2666s

    n2666s Subscriber

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    Gary; appreciate your help with the jets :thumbup: no misinformation at all!, been around enough to realize that stock can be sold and it can go all of a sudden then just have to reorder, got them in today and will be replacing one, maybe both on the "Frankie"
    I did not even know where to begin looking; heck batting 333 gets you in the "big leagues" :)
    Ken, thanks for the input on those supports; gosh, they must have some kind of cottage industry there in Bulgaria putting these together.
    Lou
     
  17. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr Subscriber

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    No, not of Bulgaria, that 'lock' for the legs is original to the Coleman 523.
    See mine ... HERE

    Ken in NC
     
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  18. n2666s

    n2666s Subscriber

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    Ken, thanks for sharing; yours is awesome :clap:
    Re: "cottage industry" was referring to have seen 4-5 now with Kero burners all out of eastern Europe; 3 for sure with Optimus; others can't say for sure about Optimus but they were Kero/diesel :(
    also all the ones I have seen from there are without any US markings :?
    have seen quite a few now here in the US but they all have US marking strip, :-k did we ship them in the 40s minus US markings? :-k just kinda wondering.


    Lou
     
  19. neil

    neil Subscriber

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    Hello all.... I have been having issues with the spindle on my Force10 heater not seating properly as well and I found this post a few minutes ago and I believe I now see how to fix it! Kerophiles suggestion about putting the spindle in a drill and smoothing the cone with a fine wet stone sounds like what I need to do. My question is how did the spindle get the groove pattern on the cone tip? Would coke build up on the cone and seat cause it? Thanks
     
  20. kerophile

    kerophile United Kingdom SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Hi, well used regulator spindles often show a circumferential groove, or groves on their cone. I believe that these correspond with the contact area with the matching female cone in the valve body of the burner.

    Heavy-handedness is the main reason for groove formation. If the regulator is used with a gentle touch, the needle valve should last for a long time before needing attention. However, some users seem to believe "more is better" and apply another quarter turn or so, even when the valve is already seated and closed. Brass is relatively soft and the knob provides a lot of leverage to an adult.

    I do not believe that carbon build-is a significant direct factor in groove formation, however it could make the theaded portion stiff over time, and give less feed-back to the operator when opening or closing the regulating valve.

    It is always a good idea to clean out the carbon from the grooves and hollows of the burner head when maintaining or replacing the regulator spindle. A small- diameter brass-wire brush,
    such as is used for gun bore cleaning is recommended.
    Just my thoughts,
    Best Regards,
    Kerophile.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2016