Advice Needed: Multifuel Family Emergency Stove

I've got to say, after reading so many good suggestions, that I'm in with the Coleman 425 + propane generator suggestion. I got the generator at Walmart. Cheap.

Second would be the 111T. I love the two I have. I don't think they are as rock-solid as the Coleman, though. That might raise eyebrows in this crowd!

 

Sparky is on the money about the "dual fuel" thing. Coleman sells more generators that way.

You won't find a dual fuel with a round tank. d/fs are fairly new and were produced long after the cylindrical tanks were out of production.

The 414 is the "modern" equivalent of the 413. It's just not built as sturdy. Thinner steel throughout.

The rust on the tanks won't be from the outside. It will rust from the inside. Coleman tanks have had good and bad batches over the years. The round tanks are preferred because they were tinned and thicker. Some of the red ones COULD have issues if they are stored with fuel in the tank after use. The more you use it, the more water you introduce into the tank. That's why it's best(in my opinion) to run them until empty, then store them empty, cap off, and rolled paper towel in the filler neck. Don't use linty paper towels. ANY tank will last a lifetime if you this. You can always POR 15 them and not worry about it, I suppose. If you use them often, a monthly rinse is all that's required unless the humidity is extremely high, then I'd go every 2 weeks. There are conflicting opinions on using a bit of methanol(Heet gas line anti freeze) occasionally. I think its a good idea because I believe it's better for the methanol to hold the water in suspension and be carried off to the burner than to have it pool at the bottom of the tank in one spot for extended periods, which WILL happen if you don't completely dry the tank out.

Mike

 

Alright, I'm going out on a limb and looking at a Coleman 502 for my money.

Mike, you've already shown you can run one on kerosene with no problem, change the filler cap and you can run it on butane, run it as made on naptha/Coleman fuel, and with a modded generator, my money says you could run it on alcohol, just like the modded 425's rebuilt for marine use.

Add on the spark lighter mod that I did earlier, and you've got the cat by the tail, IMO.

Murph

 

An emergency stove must be simple to use. It might not be the owner using it for many reasons. Im not sure everyone thats not a member of this forum could start a 502 on kero or fill it with butane.
Emergency stove must be guaranteed to work when demanded as lives could be depending on it. This pretty much eliminates any modded stove. I know we love them but we can also tolerate the odd breakdown.

 

My emergency stove that is in a large backpack is an Optimus Crux and two canisters of butane. It never gets left in the car and is nearby at home. Whenever I go somewhere the pack gets thrown in the trunk or in the backseat. In the backpack, it never overheats (I forgot that) with all the other items insulating it in the pack from the heat.

In the pack I have room to fit all the other essentials for at least 3 days of food, emergency blanket, knives, lights, compasses, matches, cooking utensils, cups, one change of clothes, water filtration, rope, emergency sleeping bag, etc.

My youngest son who is ten years old can operate the stove. It's simple, takes little space and provides a really hot flame.

Local search and rescue use either the Snowpeak Giga Power or similar and use the extra small butane canisters. They have to be able to carry their equipment in all weather conditions and in all places and it has to work. None of those guys are stove experts.

This, of course, rules out multi-fuel and low cost. But qualifies as compact and durable. No need to lug around a suitcase stove or pack anything in it. Backpacks are definitely easier to carry.

Optimus Crux ~$49 USD
Snow Peak Giga ~$35 USD

Butane canisters - ~$2.99 to $5.99 USD

Weight:
Optimus Crux - 93 grams
Snow Peak Giga - 89 grams

Output:
Optimus Crux - 12,000 BTU/3KW
Snow Peak Giga - 10,000 BTU/2.9KW


sam

 

Sam those are neat compact powerful stoves, but again, would that be your choice to cook for a family on for an extended period? How big a pot can you cook a stew on it with? Can you run a home canning rig on it? I'm too tired to look up how many canisters equal a gallon of camp fuel.

I do love my 502s and 2 or 3 of them can be had cheap. They are strong, dependable, well built stoves that can support some weight and with a few wraps of copper will burn kero very well with a short prime. But they do run hot, especially with a large pot. The controls can be finger burners, and they lack the power of the suitcase models. But they are pretty efficient. And that spark lighter mod is brilliant BTW. A solid backup stove for this application in my opinion.

A pair of clean 500s side by side is a better choice IMHO simply because they can hold larger vessels and are more powerful. They will also run kero just fine with a coil on the generator.

As for someone that isn't the owner using my stove. That would be a very short list, my wife and 2 kids. 3 of us know how to light and care for a Coleman suitcase stove. The wife just isn't into stoves at all. LOL! Oh well, she doesn't cook on the home stove either. My point is that you train with the equipment you have until you can do it blindfolded. I don't give a rats tail if my neighbor can't run one. Cause he won't be running mine. Period. Don't get me wrong, I'll cook for them if they bring food or we have extra. The time to learn how to use survival equipment of any kind isn't when you need it. Training is part of being prepared.

Another issue is ease of maintenance and repair. A few cap gaskets, a pump leather, a generator or two, a small adjustable wrench, a small bottle of oil, and a couple wire brushes and you can run a Coleman suitcase through a truckload of fuel.

Can your recommended stove do the following:

Boil large quantities of water for your family
Support a large stock pot/canning rig for your family
Support a large cast iron griddle for your family
Be used with a folding rack oven for your family
Cook 3 dishes simultaneously for your family
Simmer reliably with infinite adjustment for your family
Put out enough heat to sear large cuts of meat for your family

The 426 can and does regularly for my family.

Yes things can be jury rigged to make other stoves do SOME of the above. The 426 does it all, because it was designed to.

Will it run on kero? I say no. Yes it CAN be made to work, but I wouldn't bother since Coleman fuel is cheaper here than kero anyway.

Mike

 

How does one define emergency.
Power pole knocked down in street just before cooking dinner. Power back on tomorrow probably
Any of the above stoves will cook tea but what if you knocked over that pole Discount any stoves the people you live with cant use

Weather event power down for a week. Dont know where you live but it might also be extremely cold. I will assume house still liveable. A bigger stove would be nice but all the others as above will do the job.

As above but include geological events Power down at least a week House did the pack of cards thing. Who knows if you are all ok. How much assistance do you need to give to neighbours.
My triangia is out the window but all the others would do the job. They may also be supplying heat so bigger might be better. Make sure you have plenty of fuel. Any lanterns should run on the same fuel.

As above but you have to leave area on foot.
Coleman suitcase not so nice now nor is the 3 burner propane cooker. This puts us back into the tramping style stoves. Im probably leaning to a butane canister (lots of spare canisters), Or a Coleman 422 or 533 Maybe the 502, All are white gas but easy to light. You could also use a M1950 which is reliable and white gas or a a brass discuss on kero but make sure whoever might need to use them knows how before they need to.

 

Actually it depends on the definition of Toniok, the originator of this thread, who said a "long term emergency" "3 months" he has "2 little ones" not sure, but likely a wife as well and for the stove, "weight is not an issue". So cooking for 4 for a minimum of 3 months at a static location.

Mike

 

Hey Mike,

Yep, you're right. Brain flatulence! I totally forgot the 'long term' requirement. I was thinking three days, very short term, ease of use, and the need to have to pick up and run since, in my head, I got hit with a tornado and needed something until help arrives and I have to spend the night on a hill since my house is underwater. LOL! Totally missed the weight requirement and 3 months!

Form my long term, I've got a Camp Chef and eight 20-lb bottles of propane that my family uses all the time. They know how to use the burner. Very stationary. Very powerful, but also can simmer very well. The stove sits for months at a time and works every time. Since weight is not an issue, I never move it! I actually have two others that sit in boxes waiting to go into service. According to the cooking we do, I know for sure it will last at least 6 months, if not longer, on my supply, especially if we limit cooking to bare essential cooking.

I have backup stoves a-plenty - Coleman 426s, 425s, 413s, brassies galore, 111s, PWs, etc. My kids don't like using them since they require a little more work to get them going. They know how to use them, but they would rather not. I've got a few Coleman small bottle propane stoves in 2 and 3 burner and also store a dozen or so 1-lb bottles and have an adapter for the 20-lb bottles, which I would use first. I also have the propane adapters for these suitcase stoves as well. A very good option if space is an issue.

The problem with Coleman Fuel is that right now, it's $10 USD or more a gallon. This pretty much decides it for me. It's a hobby fuel. I can only store so much of that due to cost and will have to use Unleaded, which I would have to defer use of after my kerosene supply runs out.

If I run out of propane I have kerosene storage to last a really long time. If I/we get to that kind of long term, we're in a world of hurt. It's possible, but let's not let it get there, if we can help it. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. If I really get desperate and run out of the above fuel, I have a storage of unleaded (limited) and diesel that should last me for a really long time.

Wood and coal are next if things get really dicey.

My plan is to go from ease of use to more difficult to use stoves. That goes for fuel too. Ease of use fuel - propane, to the middle, Kerosene, to difficult to use fuels - wood, diesel. Unleaded is cheap but hard to store long term - one year at best before it starts to gum up - that's without fuel stabilizer, which would add to the costs. If I'm using wood and diesel, I'm getting real desperate. For me the liquid fuel stoves are secondary and backup - after - the primary sources run dry.

I've thought through this for many years and this is what I have come up with for my own personal situation. It will be different for everyone due to financial, location, family size, and need. I live up in the cold north and have to have cooking and heating sources in case the power does go out for days, weeks, or months at a time. It doesn't or hasn't happened -- yet, but it could. Just being prepared and giving myself every option.

Sorry for the brain flatulence everyone!

sam

 

No apologies necessary, Sam. You make some excellent points, as usual. Propane is, in my opinion the best general purpose fuel available. Even more attractive with CF prices so high. With 8 20lb bottles, you are indeed set for a long term catastrophe. If only they didn't need such heavy, bulky containers to store them, I'd use it more. I only keep 3 of them(one on my grill, so 2 full at all times) Another thing I like about it is there are so many appliances that use it now. I have a refill adapter for the 1lb bottles that works well if you know how to do it, a 12 foot adapter hose, and an appliance tree. The best things about propane, in my opinion, are how clean it burns, its ease of use, and it's spill free.

Have you seen or used the composite tanks? I saw one last year, but haven't seen them since, except on the web. Lighter and transparent so you can see the fuel level in it. Pretty neat.

If you have room to store it, propane is indeed tough to argue against.

I think for heat, I'd probably stockpile wood if I had an efficient wood stove. But I don't yet. Around here, firewood is basically free if you know where to go. There is always someone willing to pay you to cut and haul trees away. You can go to the brush dump and cut for years on the logs they have. I WILL do this eventually, I love a good wood stove. A simple fireplace just chews through wood to fast for anything but ambiance.

Those Camp Chef's look solid. How heavy are they?

Thanks, Sam. Another excellent option to consider.

Mike

 

When does preperation become paranoia? I was watching a program called Preppers on sky the other night, one chap had a quite sophisticated and fully functional underground nuclear bunker at his 'weekend place'. If it makes him sleep better at night, good luck to him. I've wondered a bit about the 'house of cards' syndrome, ie something happens so bad that your house is all up (touch wood it never happens, *clonk*). A basement full of goodies may not be safe or even possible to get at. The 'best' option I could think of was a weatherised shipping container away from trees, power poles etc, or, cheaper, an old van under a tarp. Storing propane/LPG in some sort of quantity does seem like a good plan in the short to medium term, it's easy to use and flexible in application. Those jumbo house tanks could be a thought if your regular house is set up for such, but keep a spare full one at all times and rotate as you run out and get a fresh one. Initial out lay would be the price of a full new tank, a bit stiff, granted, but only the once.

It's sort of interesting that we seem to keep coming back to wood stoves, I spose it's a bit of a no-brainer really, an armful of wood on fire has served us well since Ugh the Caveman. Interesting thread.

 

when one starts hoarding nitrogen-packed 1,000-round lots of 9mm ammo and sealing US$50,000 worth of Krugerrands in concrete in the garage?



but preparation is prudence 'round these parts due to hurricanes - i learned in 2004 that it is not much fun to live without electricity for five days

and during the summer months we always stash several cases of water and keep bottled water in our vehicles (much like most folks up north keep a blanket and some food in the car during winter)

and yes, i definitely agree w/nzmike - this has been an interesting thread! thanks folks!

 

Interesting, Mike,

I suppose the hard part is to figure out what kinds of disasters you want to prepare for, and at what magnitude each one is likely to hit. The total list is too big, and you can't prepare for all.

Of course, if you live where natural disasters have struck before, there's high likelihood they'll strike again, so you try to learn from the recent past of your place. Thus, people near the coast of the gulf of Mexico will prepare for 1 - 2 weeks of forced evacuation, while people in the midwest will prepare for a destructive tornado that wipes off the house and only leaves the basement.

For others, it's a lot harder to predict which disasters they should prepare for. Once you made up your personal list, then you can prioritize your needs.

Yonadav

 

I think it's really a pretty fine line between them, Mike. My wife rolls her eyes when I tell her we need more fuel(any type). HOW MUCH DO YOU NEED? is the response.

I personally don't have a bomb shelter, or months worth of food stockpiled. I don't carry a bugout bag, either. But I don't scoff at those who do. To each their own.

Paranoia, maybe, but those in Joplin, Missouri or Tuscaloosa, Alabama with storm/bomb shelters are probably pretty happy with their investment.

As to the nuclear threat, I think it's worse now, if on a smaller scale, than ever. No need to get into politics, just that there has been a lack of positive control over lots of nuclear material in the last 20 years. But that's really not one I dwell on. I do have some red wine just in case. HA! Global financial meltdown looks more likely all the time though.

I suppose you'd drive yourself crazy if you tried to plan for it all.

I keep in mind, though, that a huge tornado ripped the town I live in (Wichita Falls, TX) apart in 1979 and 1964 and I grew up in Kansas so me and Toto saw our fair share there too.

Mike

 

Too late to edit my last post, but if you're interested, do a Youtube search for "terrible tuesday tornado" What makes it really bad in this area is that the soil is not suited for concrete basements, so most homes are pier and beam or on slabs.

Mike

 

I've live in my current residence since 2004. Since then we have had two significant stretches of power outage 6-days(ice storm) and 7-days(IKE). There was a two day hiccup and a couple 1-day events. I have cooked indoors using safe heat and Sterno in the winter and the gas grill and camp stoves outside in the summer. I live in a metro area with water and natural gas distribution. While many were in the dark I felt very lucky to be able to take a hot shower by candle light. These indecent would have taken a much nastier turn without fresh water. Oh... our water infrastructure has two major breaks in the last year. Hope we don't get a two-fer-one disaster.

AR

 

Remember, if you have it, they will take it. A well prepared citizen is a target for a hungry mob so the first thing on your list should be 12 ga ammunition. Even then, they will eventually wear you down. Maybe it is better to be part of the hungry mob?

 

Well, let's see. The camp chef double burner I have probably weighs around 40 to 45 pounds. It's got heavy cast iron burners and a very thick steel frame wrapped around it. The pot supports are made of 1 inch wide 1/4" thick steel and heavy duty legs to hold the thing up. Comes with a windscreen.

I've got one of those adapters to fill 1lb bottles but haven't gotten the gumption to fill one yet. Looks pretty straight forward. I've read that there are restrictions to transport once the bottle has been refilled.

Composite tanks? I've never heard of them. Sounds very interesting. I'll go have a look.

sam

 

If you have several shotguns, tons of ammo, and several people that live with you to help protect you, the mob may wear down too. Of course, my wife is a great cook for big groups, so we may have to just feed that mob instead.

sam

 

You can become paranoid and extremist if you are not careful. Common sense, careful planning and balance are key. You do have to live with SOME risk. As far as I know, I'm doing the minimum for the bad winters we have here - temps below zero, lots of snow, freezing water pipes, etc.

Hmmm. Sounds like a good idea.

My next spring/summer project is a 500 gallon propane tank sitting out near my house. Several of my neighbors have them for their primary heating source.

My knuckles drag on the ground every once in a while...

sam