I can't comment on iPhone, I have never had an Apple product, I was assimilated by the other evil empire. If I do bring a GPS, I only use it to locate where I am if I have a difficult time with the map, or simply to save time. Then I turn it off. It's been a long time since I was off-trail that I would need that much navigation, electronic or otherwise. But, this seems to an electronic generation. Everything is on their phone. Some of my family would rather text than make a phone call. They browse the web, check the weather, etc, all on their phone. But, back to the original item. Has anyone actually gotten the Bio-Lite stove to charge their electronic products while on a backpacking trip? And how long do you have to have the stove running to fully charge it? What are you cooking for that long to make use of a fire for that long? Ken in NC
Morning, Ken, Knotty, and All, Ken, you make some excellent points, and I agree with you, completely. I think the younger generations love their phones and iPads, about the same as we love our old stoves and such. Like you, I've seen two young kids, sitting right next to each other, TEXTING each other, instead of talking!!!! I would MUCH rather actually TALK to someone, looking directly at them, than text them, and I only send text messages when there is no other option for me that would work. I think back to when Spiritburner wrote some (possibly) tongue-in-cheek comments to a post that I made, in which I mentioned that I finally got a JetBoil stove (for which I paid $3, brand new, at REI!). His tenor in those comments was sort of a "it's come to THIS" thing, and he espoused his love of REAL stoves, and most especially those of a true classic nature!! His post was funny, then, but I understand from where he was coming. When the discussion turns to why a smart phone is necessary in the woods/wilderness, I get that same kind of feeling that Ross exhibited when I wrote about having JetBoil (which, by the way, I've never fired up, other than when I first brought it home). for me, phones in the wilderness detract from the experience I go there to enjoy, pure and simple. We used to backpack with a So.Cal cop and his wife. They always brought their cell phones, mainly just to check email, and send notes to friends. Both Sweet Bride and I found that the phones really took away the entire reason we go to the wilderness in the first place: to ESCAPE all that modern paraphernalia, practice our woods skills, and enjoy a rustic, quiet, and most spiritual experience!!! To us, phones help to take away from that sort of experience. So, back then, we asked our friends to, either not bring their phones at all, or to use them when they were not near us. Now, most of these trips were up on Mt. San Jacinto, and since Palm Springs lies just beneath that wonderful mountain, they could always get a signal. But, our having mentioned our dismay at them using phones, when we were trying to experience something more akin to nature, caused them to "see the light", and they left their phones at home, or buried in their packs, only to be used in true emergencies. Each to their own, however, and if some folks think that their phones have a real place in the woods/wilderness, they should do what they think best. I would not wish to camp with them, however, as their wishes for "being out there" are so different from Sweet Bride's and mine, that they are in direct conflict with each other, and that sort of conflict ruins the entire experience, at least for us. Dial me "disconnected" when it comes to using a phone for anything other than a pure emergency, when in the wilderness!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Ol' Doc, the Troglodyte-Luddite-Back-to-Nature-Old-Fart!! 8) PS. I just read my post to Sweet Bride, and her comment made me burst out laughing!! She said, quite casually, "People who think that they "need" their phones in the wilderness, shouldn't be out there in the first place"!! Then, she laughed! DANG, that was funny!!
I guess it depends on whether you see a mobile phone as a lifeline - or a ball and chain. Before such devices were commonplace, those venturing into possibly dangerous areas such as the Cairgorms would leave notes posted into a box in the car park - details of route, destination, and ETA of return. Although I carry a comparatively simple phone on my hip, I might make a call once every other month, and receive calls from my wife when she can't find me in the supermarket aisles - rare. It's PAYG, and I might spend £20 a year topping it up.
Mark, I am with you on this one. One of the reasons to go walking in the hills and countryside is to get away from it all. Personally I do not want to be texting or phoning anyone and don't want people contacting me. But of course it does not end there. I get annoyed when I see others out on the fells using their phones. It really has nothing to do with me but I admit that it still annoys me. The other similar annoyance is seeing people permanently plugged into a music device, whether it is an iPod, MP3 player, or whatever. They walk while playing the music loudly into their personal earphones. In fact if you get near to such a person, you can often hear the high-pitched music they are playing because they are playing it so loudly. I like to hear the sounds around me - the crunch of walking boots, the wind, other sounds of the countryside, or when stopping for a break, the utter tranquility and lack of sounds of busy human life. But I am an old dinosaur.
Morning, Trevor, I totally agree with you!! Thinking back to a time when Sweet Bride and I took a rest stop at the head of a canyon, which was on the cusp of the forest/desert divide. We were up on the ridge, looking down into the canyon, and hearing the wind, and seeing the ravens silently rise and fall on the thermals in the canyon, was pure magic!! Had anyone been with us who wanted to fire up their cell phone during that exquisite moment, I fear I'd have tossed them down into the canyon, as raven/coyote/ant food!!!! Call it encroachment, or whatever else you want: cell phones, used for anything else in the wilderness, other than an emergency, shrinks the entire wilderness experience, and dilutes it to the point of killing it (for us!). So, if you are a dinosaur, then so are SB and me, and happily so!!! Are folks like you, me, and SB "extinct"???? Not by a long shot!! 8) Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Mark
When I was about 15, my family took a vacacion to Grand Canyon. The first day we were there, we went to a place called Bright Angel Point. I walked to the very edge of the canyon (you probably can't do that now) sat down and watched the long shadows of the days end climb the canyon walls. Not a sound could be heard except for the wind. Glad cell phones were far in the future at that time.
You all realize that there are, or perhaps were, people who would eschew the idea of carrying a metal stove and petroleum products into the woods. What, not build a real wood fire?!
Hey, Knotty, Yep. And, if they don't wish to carry and use a stove, then that's their right not to do it. However, my use of a stove does not hamper their enjoyment of their wood fire, if that's what they want to do. Uh, OH!! Just remembered, wood fires are banned in many areas of wilderness, especially State Forests. Using a stove is required by the Authorities in many areas. So, in truth, using a stove to cook your food, is far more eco-friendly, than chopping on the trees, using deadfall, and other wood, to have a fire. That's how I see it, but you are free to disagree..... Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc (who thinks you "might" be grasping at straws with this rather feeble argument, but who appreciates your sense of humor, nonetheless!)
Sparky, You can still go right up to the edge of GC and peer into the abyss. People fall into it a lot. Personally, I prefer going in and looking up at the walls. And I go there to get away. Exception to my phone statements: When I did the West Coast Trail on Vancouver Island in '09. I had my cell phone packed away in my pack. Every night I would call my wife in NC for a few minutes. I got a signal from across the Strait of Juan de Fuca in Washington State. It seems a contradiction, but, I don't think so. I stayed focused on the navigation and difficulties of the trail. Especially every time I climbed up or down one of the very tall ladders used to traverse the many streams. And I knew there was no rescue in Canada unless I paid for it. No dialing 911 and having someone risk there life because I didn't feel like hiking any more, or any other reason, life threatening or not. The Rangers, when we were issued the permit, made it quite clear, "WE WOULD PAY FOR OUR OWN RESCUE". That certainly put me into a "Watch out" mode when hiking. Oh, by the way, that hike is incredible. Below is one photo from the top of one of the ladders. You can see the stream bed below. Usually a 30-50 foot walk across the creek to another ladder going up the other side. Ken in NC
Hi Replying on my phone. If you were walking with me you wouldn't know if I had my phone with me or not. I have 3 children whose faces are welded to their phone screens 24/7 so I know how annoying inconsiderate phone use can be. Doesn't stop me listening to radio 2 or reading a kindle book in my sleeping bag on these long dark nights though.
Hey, Gary, No problem on my end with the way you do it. We used to backpack with a fellow who, at first glance, looked like a dirty, down-and-out vagrant!! His pack, sleeping bag, and pad, were covered with duct tape patches, and his clothing very disheveled. However, this Gent was a long distance backpacking fool!! When we met him, on the Pacific Crest Trail, he already had logged well over 10,000 miles of backpacking America's long distance trails!!! Now, he's probably got ten-fifteen times that number of miles, as he's still out there doing what he loves best!! In his hands, he always carried one plastic grocery bag, inside of which were these items: a box of crackers, a spare ball cap, and a TRANSISTOR RADIO, with ear phone!! Turns out, he was a baseball fanatic, and if he could tune in a station that carried the current games, he would listen to them as he hiked along!! Not my cup of tea, but he was very considerate in what he did, and none of us who hiked with him ever heard so much as a peep out of his radio, and we hiked quite a few miles/days/weeks with him!!! That worked for us, and cell phones, when used privately, would work for us, too. It's the rampant inconsiderate use of such things gets out goat. Ken, I remember seeing the great photos of that special trip you made! Lovely in all respects, and were I in your situation, I might consider doing things just as you did. Thanks for the thoughts, Gentlemen, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Mark
2007 Grand Canyon Colorado River. 21 days. 14 people. Privately organized and outfitted trip, not a commercial buy-and-giggle. No cell reception in the Canyon except at two spots in view of Desert Watch Tower/South Rim. GPS is spotty - high canyon walls and low satellites. If you want evac - SAT phones. They work intermittently because the high canyon walls prevent direct line-of-site. At night, you can get contact with airliners if you are lucky. Daytime signal mirror signals to passing airliners are another option. Evac cost by helicopter is free to the South Rim in the case of emergency medical evac. Costs skyrocket if your condition requires transfer to Flagstaff. (If it's bad enough to lift you out, you'll probably be going to Flag.) Might be about $5K, though costs may be higher now. Fires on the Colorado River (and all other permitted Western rivers of which I am aware) must be contained in a firepan you provide and transport. There are minimum standards for the firepan. On some rivers, (and in some Western wilderness areas), you must bring firewood as you are not allowed to collect wood. Biolites would likely not be permitted (????) unless you could meet those requirements. And, would likely not be allowed during fire season burn bans when all fires are banned. In my neck of the woods it’s, “Take only pictures, leave only footprints”. Among other things that generally means, don’t burn downed wood and don’t build fire rings for camp fires. Biolites most likely will be addressed by managing agencies, though I have no knowledge that they have not already. And, don’t shoot me, the messenger. I’m just repeating public land management policies I’ve had to comply with on some Western public lands and rivers.
FWIW, I do believe in a hike your own hike approach. We go out there for many different reasons. If it gets you out there or allows you to get out there, it's a good thing in my book! One of the reasons I started with, and continue to use, alcohol stoves is because they are completely silent. On one of my first outings I was surprised by the roar of an MSR Pocket Rocket being used by a group member. Didn't like that. Roarer stoves proved to be even louder. But as time went by I've come to accept all of these. Still it's understandable why someone would be disturbed by the roar of a stove, another by people with cell phones and still another by the smoke of a wood fire. It's up to each of us to show reasonable tolerance so that we can enjoy the outdoors together. Either that or become a hermit. Now, music played through anything but headphones, that's where I draw the line.
We never had cellphones in the old days. It was better to hike without the possibility of communication. However, this may be because we never had any emergency out there. I bring a cellphone into the backcountry because I have kids or grandkids along, in case of dire need. I don't pay attention to whether or not there will be reception; I don't plan like that. And I never use the phone for conversation, etc. It is there solely for emergency. I use maps to navigate. As to fires, we try to avoid backpacking where we cannot build a fire. So we usually do not pack in the National Parks. Other times, one cannot build a fire because of high forest fire danger, but that's a different issue.
And, sorry. I forgot to mention… On the 2009 private 21-day Grand Canyon trip with 16 people, there were a fair number of “younger” people who were concerned about keeping their devices charged, mostly MP3 players/iPods. They chipped in and group-bought for a folding solar panel and storage battery for same. It was about 18” x 24” and the setup may have been from Brunton. (?) Point is, they were able to keep their 5-6 devices charged throughout the 21-days even with the lower sun angles and canyon shadows in October. I think, were I interested in keeping devices charged in the wilderness, solar panels would offer a “greener” and much more effective alternative than the Biolite. I seem to see solar panels being sold and used commonly in online trip reports and blogs by serious expeditions.
Sorry about the Jetboil comments Doc! I hate them! It's almost considered irresponsible to go into the hills without a phone in the UK now. Like not taking a map or compass. It's not so much because folk want to be texting or calling but as a device to use to inform of delays if you're expected back by a certain time or to call for help. Concern now is that people are too quick to call for help & over-rely on the capabilities of smart phones. Tess worries about me when I'm out & is happier that I carry my phone. When I had a basic one I'd usually forget to carry it - too many years mobile phone free for it to be a habit. Now I have a android smart phone with Ordnance Survey mapping & GPS that don't require a connection I tend to remember it. I still use paper map & compass. It stays switched off mostly. Handy for a location fix in foul weather, a back up camara & very rarely radio or music in tent at night plus a reassuring txt home if signal available. I was first on scene to some climbers that had a bad fall many years ago. Non of the lads I was with had a phone. It would have taken at least an hour to get somewhere to call the rescue services. Another party in the area had a phone & rescue called within 10 mins. I'd like to think I'd only call for help as a last resort even with the means to do so in my pack. Again, many years back, my friend broke his leg xc skiing. We knew where the rescue team was as they were on exercise in the area. We'd seen them earlier. We got ourselves out of there unaided & back to the car & 50 mile drive to nearest hospital. Wood burners seem to be gaining in popularity in the UK but wood is scarce in most places I backpack & even where plentiful a wood burner isn't conducive to my preferred option of cooking in the tent.
2/3 of NZ back country does not have cell phone coverage except on the tops where it can be possible. Coverage away from the main roads is worse now than when cell phones first started. In the old days (when talking cell phones this is a relative term) the 75% of the North island was covered from 3 cell phone towers now with the higher frequencies used for high speed data there are 3 towers for each of the 3 cell phone companies within a 30 minute walk of home. The high frequencies dont go through or round things and upping the power doesnt help. I carry my cell phone but turn it off as soon as we get to the road end and its for emergencies only and even then its not the sole method. The tramping club Im in invested in some beacons for use on club trips.
What a terrific thread. I do not own a BioLite stove so I cannot comment about it. There are some very interesting posts about technology and the outdoors. On my many wilderness snowmobiling trips through areas with no human contact in any direction for fifty miles; modern communications and navigation gear is always along for the ride. Not bringing these tools into the wilderness in my opinion is a risk and foolish to ignore the capabilities especially when it can provide, quite literally, a lifeline. What modern comm/nav gear joins the ride? The following: Cell phone with external battery pack. Satellite Phone (Iridium 9555) with two extra batteries). PLB (ACR SARLink). Dedicated GPS (Garmin Montana 600). I view none of these devices as "100% reliable" but rather as "insurance."
biolite stoves to emergency communication thats topic drift between 2 very important topics. My tramping club has a member who went on a 10 day trip solo before these beacons cellphones etc were available so his only option was tell someone whern to expect him back. Day 2 a rockfall crushed his foot. 8 days later people started looking for him. He lost a leg at the knee to gangrene but otherwise ok and still tramps even though hes nearly 80. There is no guarantee they could of saved his foot but he wouldnt of had the extra gangrene to deal with
I have luckily or otherwise only been involved in one really serious situation in the outdoors. My companion froze his foot but being an extremely tough guy he walked out and ended up with some toes amputated. An emergency call would likely not have made much difference to the amputations, but would have saved much suffering. So I carry a radio when I go out. Bruce
