California bans Denatured Alcohol, and......!!

Thanks all for the feedback. Like many boaters, we have used hardware store denatured stove fuel, which is likely over 50% methanol. It is a concern in the confines of our sailboat, even when opening a hatch for ventilation. I have been migrating toward the ethanol fuels, but have not been happy with the sooting and stronger odor. Yesterday I tried adding some water to the fireplace ethanol fuel and tried it in a Trangia. It did somewhat diminish the yellow flame. I have not yet cooked with the mix so cannot comment on the sooting. I have a supply of Kleenstrip which I will reserve for use in priming kerosene or gas stoves. My better half was not happy with having to clean the pots on the boat with the ethanol, so I am hoping to come up with a clean burning ethanol. Brad

 

@BradB I've been using bio-ethanol for preheating Coleman and Kerosene burners without difficulty but I can see how the isopropyl alcohol in it could cause sooting when used at the primary fuel. The bio-ethanol probably burns hotter but not as cleanly as denatured alcohol 50/50 mix of ethanol and methanol.

Ben

 

I had not concerned myself with the flame color, and have not noticed soot on the pots.
I lit a (LEFT) Trangia with bioethanol and a (RIGHT) military spiritburner with SLX Kleen Strip denatured alcohol.
A noticeable larger and orange flame.

I boiled a few cups of water in the Duossal. I see no soot. Maybe I needed to cook longer.

I pulled the duossal burner out and burned in the open, it was orange as the other Trangia burner was.
Denatured alcohol was a blue flame.

One point, the biofuel goes to 'pop' burner flame faster, it seems. Not scientific or timed. Just an observation.

 

Exactly! The pretense that our governments are working tirelessly to protect us and save the environment is laughable. They need our money to maintain their prestige and keep their commercial backers happy, and a few less wood burners are a few more oil/gas/electric systems to keep the profits buoyant.

 

Here were the photos from my testing when I bought the bioethanol, well down the page.Ethanol v Methanol

 

Ok. You win. I see the discoloration.

I have never been concerned about the discoloration. Black pots heat up faster, so I leave them blackened.

 

My wife was quite concerned with keeping her pots clean at the boat. My question is whether or not I wanted long term deposits on my kero burners, where it is not so easy to clean. It may be, as you stated, that it doesn’t really matter there either.

 

UPDATE ON CA BAN ON ALCOHOL FUEL SALES!!

Greetings, All,

Sweet Bride and I just returned from a job down in San Diego. Whilst down there, I decided to stop in at an REI, just to see if the "might" still have some alcohol fuel on their shelves. Imagine my surprise to find FIVE QUARTS of Alcohol Stove Fuel, made by Crown!! I grabbed all 5 of them, and then asked if they had more in the back. The Gal went back and returned with 2 more quarts. I bought all 7 quarts, at the high price of $7.95 per quart, which equals the horrendous price of $31.80 per gallon!!!! YIKES!!!

On the way back home, we stopped at another REI about an hour from our place, and they, too, have some of this same fuel in stock!! I bought the 3 quarts that they had in stock, with gritted teeth and counted myself blessed to have found them! OR, was I??!?? Yes, in one way, I was blessed, as I need Meths fuel for our upcoming CASG event!! But, could I have found it less expensive? I don't think so, at least not in California!

So, for those in need, in CA, it appears that, at least for now, you CAN buy it at REI, albeit at a huge tariff!! I talked to the store managers of both REI stores in which we found the fuel, and both assured me that REI Corporate has NO plans to discontinue carrying this fuel in their stores!! Hummmm.....??? Looking at the price I had to pay, I wonder if REI worked a deal with CA, in which the State gets a big kick-back for allowing them to sell this fuel?! And, if that is true, then why aren't the big box stores allowed to make the same deal??!??

The stuff I bought "contains Methanol and Ethanol", in case you were wondering.

@ArchMc , I will most certainly be sending off a firm, but polite letter to our Governor, along with copies for our other Representatives, detailing the problem with banning a fuel that is, basically, one of our most "green" fuels, and also one of our most safe, as any run away flames can be quenched with water, quite safely. I will point out the backpackers, campers, and boat owners who are in need of this fuel, and I will politely request that this ban be revisited by CARB, and reversed. Good on your, my Friend, for encouraging us all to get active on this issue!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

Quality Chemical Company - Denatured Alcohol (Ethanol) 200 proofI just received a 5 gallon pail of a claimed 200 proof denatured alcohol, bought off ebay. Shipping was very fast, 2 days. I saw no mention of not shipping to California, so, maybe? It was $89. Maybe our CA friends can let us know if they can receive this. I cannot vouch for the product since I have not opened it. It is from Quality Chemical from FL. Brad

 

Evening,

Here's an interesting read, for those that use alcohol stove fuels:

5 Best Alcohol Stove Fuels for Camping & Backpacking | 99Boulders

You might be surprised at which brand of fuel came in #1, in their testing!

Doc

 

I had reached the same conclusions about how nice the Kleenstrip blends are to use. Very clean burning, no muss, no fuss. However, I have started to use the ethanol fuel for health reasons. It is not as nice to use but is hopefully a healthier alternative.

 

@BradB Your 200 proof ethanol is denatured by adding one-sixteenth avoirdupois ounce of denatonium benzoate, N.F., and 1⁄8 gallon of tert-butyl alcohol per 100 gallons of ethanol. That's not much additive. It should burn clean. Please report back after your real world camp stove trials.

Ben

 

#1 to me would be the least toxic fuel that gets the job done. Not the cheapest and fastest boil.
I do not cook with a stop watch hoping to achieve the fastest meal on record.
The additives that are burned, or not burned, going into the air, are invisible.

I think Ben has the best idea, make his own.

 

@z1ulike , thanks Ben for the info. Tomorrow I will try to figure out how to get some of it out of that 5 gallon pail into a usable container. Then I will test it in the Trangia and report back. I am not the best fuel handler in the world so I will also report on the trials of a klutz. Brad

 

I have a burn on my leg, from alcohol, proving that I am a klutz, too.

 

Hi all! I've been following this thread with interest, since stoves, alcohol, science, health and the environment all are dear subjects to me.

My first impression with the Ban was that it hit the paint strippers. Could it be the case that the legislators are actually sane?
Cracking down on possibly harmful agents in the product, and not the alcohol itself, might just cheat the maker of the profits until a new source for ethanol comes along.

Docs post about a product actually safe for use as a fuel still being sold, might be pointing in that direction?

 

No!!!! This is California we’re talking about sanity and rational thought are NOT part of any legislation.


I’ll close the door as I leave...

 

I just realized that my above post doesn’t sound as tongue in cheek as I meant it. Sorry.

 

Hey, @Duck ,

I got a grin out of it!! But, in truth, you're pretty much on target with the gist of your tongue-in-cheek comment!

Doc

 

@Duck I was going to say "amen brother." The same crowd that brought us the 75 million dollar bullet train to nowhere.

Ben