Scouterjan: Nice job. Your stove is indeed an early #2 as it has numerous #1 features. Doc: the rack looks like a genny. Mike...
Doc, its original, I need 2 more so will attempt to make a couple when summer comes. Thanks for the kind words. My #1 is original, so is my 2C? and they will probably stay that way, rust and all regards Jan
Wow you guys are unreal!!! I don't have enough time at this moment to really study your replies and post a good follow up, but I just wanted to take a minute to show my appreciation to you all for sharing your valuable information and contributing to this thread. Questions? I have many if that is ok? To keep the ball rolling... has anybody "pulled" the US Patent paperwork for the numbers that appear on the brass tag riveted to the Coleman Model #2 stove? More later and thanks again, Will
Morning, Will, Hey, this is why I encouraged you to post your questions for the entire CCS forum to see, instead of just asking me in a PT, where nobody but you and me would see the conversation! Well done in posting this thread, and my sincere thanks to all my CCS Mates who have jumped in with lots of excellent information on our #1 Coleman stoves!! Looking forward to seeing lots of photos of your own #1, Will! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
After more investigation I realized I made a error (post above) thinking there were US Patent numbers on late #1 and #2 brass tags/ identification plates. The tags in fact have only the dates US Patents were granted. Maybe they can still be pulled? That would be interesting. 1) Jan. 8 1924 2) Jan. 15 1924 3) Feb 12 1924. Doc, You are right that 13,000 units sold in 1923 was not that many. That would equal approximately 260 units per State - not many; perspective can be everything. Sam, you did a great job of documenting the mechanical function of the Air Screw fuel tank. Perfectly understood - thank you for doing that to share. If I can be so bold to repost your picture that says a thousand words. I gather the general consensus is that the early Model #1s had the detachable oven panels with the small access door on the top right side. Later units had a rather ingenious way of folding the complete oven into one contained unit. The detachable design was flawed in my opinion, and easy to see why Coleman moved away from it for good. With a couple of small inconspicuous bends in my panels, I could barely separate them. They were jammed together. There was no easy sliding them out per the design. Surely a headache for others as well. Also, concerning the oven rack and the corrugated shelf that came with the early oven stoves. Would it not seem likely that each oven stove would be shipped with both the rack and the corrugated shelf and that one or the other, or perhaps both, got lost along the way? It seems there is no discernable pattern where just shelves or just racks appear within a certain date or model range. Plausible or probable? Real interesting history to these early Coleman stoves Thanks Doc and Mike. Great stoves Jan (fellow Canuck). More later, Will
Will, not sure if I like the design of the #2 better, its a PITA to fold up and get the lid on w/o bending the crap out of things. I do definitely like the aux burner control better on the #1, as for the racks, I have seen quite a few folding racks that have fallen apart,. so they probably got chucked out. Do you have the New Coleman Collectors Guide Book? some great detailed info in it with lots of pictures of early stoves Jan
Hi Will, Jan; Will the #1 two piece folding oven section should slide easily in and out of the back panel, see if the panel itself or the channels it slides into are warped or bent. When you close the lid it makes a difference which side panel is folded first. The #1 came with a folding rack and a flat rectangular steel flame spreader. The corrugated spreader came with the #2. See pictures in the reference gallery. Jan, the Coleman ( "green" 1995) reference book has great info and pictures, unfortunately while editing and printing, pictures and their titles and dates got swapped in many areas so be careful if making a decision based on "facts" in the green book when it comes to Coleman's early stoves and lanterns. If there is a newer guide book please let us know. I prefer the Coleman #1 to all other pre-war Coleman stoves and yes I have used most all of their pre-war suitcase stoves excepting some variants of a model. Mike...
LINK I have seen Coleman Collectors drooling over this book at the last Coleman meet I was at in October. A quote from Old Coleman Parts website. Ken in NC
Morning, Ken OUTSTANDING!! I've just ordered one, and VERY much look forward to receiving it, and spending many happy hours reading, and learning, and enjoying this much-needed compendium of knowledge on "things Coleman"!!!! Many thanks for the link my Friend! I hope the info on this new Coleman book helps sweep away much of the misinformation that is so ever-present out there about Coleman products and history! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Mark
@Flintstone Morning, Will, I agree with Flivver, in that the oven in the #1 stoves is meant to easily slide in, and out of it's storage slot. One of mine was a tad sticky, at first, but once I worked it free, and cleaned up the whole thing, it went back together perfectly, and is easily removed for use, then slid back into it's proper place for storage. Clean up all your edges on that oven and the slot area, and see if that works for you. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
I agree the tin needs to be straight, then everything works as it should. If you haven't already purchased the NEW Coleman Collectors guide do so ASAP as I am not sure if their is going to be a 2nd printing. Mike at Old Coleman Parts still has some listed. This is a big heavy book, well worth the asking/shipping price kind regards Jan
I ordered it also. I do hope it is better organized and correct then the "green" book and has numbered pages. The green book would drive us nuts trying to explain what page an item was on, we finely numbered our own. Mike...
Thanks for the link Ken. I'll have to get one of the books. @scouterjan your 2C, I believe, is the only model #2 with the cast iron grate. I have one that came straight out of Utah with the heavy grate in it. It cost me a fortune to have shipped, but had at a bargain, like in the $25 range. Can't remember, it's been 4 or 5 years now. sam
Sam, you are right about the cast grate, mine including shipping was about $75.00. Its missing the aux burner control, I will have to make 1 up Jan
Boy that book looks very inviting. I'm going to want one of everything in it. Todays questions: Why are there so many Air Screw fuel tanks on late production Model #1s and Model #2s stoves through 1924? How do we know that the Air Screw tanks were the earliest 1923 examples when there are early 1923 model #1s with Non Air Screw tanks e.g. Joe's Divine Restoration Stove? Will
Hi, Will, Lots of questions, and we can go through them each in turn, here at CCS. As for Joe's Divine Restoration Stove, it has been proved, by our own Flivver, that Joe's stove is not the early model, but a later one. It was through Mike's research, and knowledge on this topic, that helped us all learn that fact. Joe is a wonderful guy, and I consider him a trusted Fellow Stovie. He, too, acknowledges that Mike's info is correct. I have a question for you: why are you having a problem in the air screw model being the earliest one? All facts, as we know them, point to that as being factual and correct. That some #2's ended up with the air screw tanks, is still a bit of a mystery. But, I think, judging from the history we've seen with many other brands of stoves, i.e., Optimus, Primus, Radius, MSR, and many others, parts were substituted as needed, with spares sourced from what the dealer, Rep, or Company had on hand at the time. Caches of NOS parts continue to surface, and I know that, using MSR as a prime example, after being out of stock for the oldest jets in their stoves, they somewhere found a nice cache of those same jets not that long ago, and once again, offered them for sale. In any case, IF you really want to know what happened, and why, you are on a huge Quixotic Quest, and I fear that, even if a real Time Machine is invented, we will still be seeking illusive answers to perplexing questions. Food for thought, maybe.....? Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Ah Doc you noticed the mystery too. Why are there so many Model #2 stoves with Air Screw (AS) tanks? This could be answered by taking a closer look and simplifying the production timeline. Status Quo Coleman Model #1 and #2 Stove Production Timeline. AS tanks. Non AS tanks. AS tanks. Non AS tanks. Simplified Timeline: Non AS tanks. AS tanks (uninterrupted production of Model #1 and #2 units with AS tanks). Non AS tanks. During the period of mid Model #1 production moving into Model #2 production these units would receive the same tank - the AS tank. Concerning Joe's stove, it seems not to be a later stove for two reasons: 1) It has a detachable oven of the earliest design. 2) It has a "Patent Applied For " brass name/model tag dating it before February 1924 (approx.). Cheers, Will
