Is there a significant safety difference between coleman and stoves such as the optimus 111 or model 80? Does the coleman have issues such that need to be addressed such as prv's or nrv's? I am referring to models such as the 502 sportster or 550b. I guess what I am asking is...what is the engineering or design difference between a coleman and a white gas model 111 or a kerosene fueled old brass primus? Tim
Hi, Tim, Well, they are like apples and oranges, really. Coleman stoves use a method of vaporizing the fuel, Coleman fuel, only, and the other stoves you mention need to be primed to raise the temperature of the burner, so that the fuel can then be vaporized. The 502 is not near as powerful as the 111B, and even the 550B is more powerful than the 502. So, you must decide why you want a stove, and for what you'll be using it. Most all stoves have some sort of NRV setup, though some are a bit different than others. Coleman's older stoves have an NRV that is almost indestructible, whilst the brass stoves need a bit more maintenance, now and then, to keep their rubber, or cork, NRV's working as they should. Again, decide why you wish to own and use a stove, and choose one that will do what you want in a manner that is satisfactory to you. I hope that helps. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
it may be obvious to state, but i'll assume you're new to it? 8) there's a world of difference between a jet of pressurised paraffin on a faulty running stove and a jet of heptane/naptha.
Hi Tim, I would go with Doc,s very sound advice. The Coleman 502 does have a more positive and safer NRV, which is much safer for a white gas stove, if the NRV ball was to fail fuel can not enter the pump tube, because the pump rod screws in to the bottom of the pump tube sealing the NRV. The 111's there is no back up device on the NRV like Coleman stoves, if the pip that seals the NRV fails fuel can enter the pump tube, so the 502 is safer with white gas if the NRV was to fail. But a good indication of a failed NRV on a 111 or any other standard brassie, is the Viagra effect the pump rod will rise up in the tube, if so then the stove should not be pumped and shut down. Both the 111 and the 502 are two fantastic stoves, well worth having in your collection. I personally like the kerosene version of the 111's, as I believe it is a safer fuel for that type of stove.
In black and white terms, yes, Kero is safer than Coleman fuel. However, the number of people seriously hurt by Coleman stoves is miniscule as is, probably, the number injured by kero stoves. I don't think the Coleman stoves have the charm of a tri-pod stove but that is probably because I grew up with Coleman products and familiarity breeds contempt.
You could have a positive locking check-valved Coleman Solus brass stove that uses kerosene, which would make it, according to the discussion so far, the safest stove. See the Coleman Solus in the reference gallery. If you know what you are doing then between the two, they are pretty safe relative to the fuel they are using. I'm sure you can find Coleman and brass stoves that you could make a case for that are unsafe. They are all inherently unsafe due to the fuels they use, but safe enough for public consumption. Unsafe stoves are usually called back by the manufacturer. Any stove can be unsafe due to lack of maintenance and/or misuse. sam
Yes, I am definitely a noob in terms of understanding and keeping stoves maintained! I proved this conclusively to myself by turning my 40-year-old optimus 8r into a blowtorch. I hadn't used it in that long and thought I did not need to re-read the instructions or do any maintenance. So, now, I am proceeding slowly and studying the many instructive posts on this wonderful website. I have kept my burnt out hulk of an optimus that once served me well as a reminder.... Thanks for the replies. Tim
Hey, Tim, your "burnt out hulk of an 8R" can be rebuilt work just like new!! And, if you are willing to put in the time on it, it can look like new, too!!! You have a few things to learn, but once you master them, you will find the 8R is a fine little stove!! Stick around, and learn what it takes to revive your little Optimus. Properly fettled and maintained, your stove is quite safe and works very well, indeed! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
As Doc says, if you haven't actually melted it, it's most likely savable. Return it to it's former glory and in doing so you'll learn a large chunk of what you need to know about pressure stoves generally. Personally I like the 111 kero's a great deal and view 111 petrol/naphtha's with suspicion, but that's just me. Kero: Mucho heat, nice smell, fairly safe, needs pre-heating to work. Petrol/white spirits/naphtha: Useful heat, quick starting, higher risk of instant conflagration. My extremely rough personal guide is Swedish brass for one burner, American steel for 2 burners.
As Doc said, your 8R can be returned to service. Get the gaskets and a wick from the Fettle Box (see the top right corner of this page), read the tutorials on overhauling the 8R, and put in some time. You'll be climbing the stove maintenance learning curve, and get your old stove back in service. Paul
i'm new to this as well. the original inquiry regarded safety and has the topic evolved into choice of stoves? If we're consideribng choices, RE: THE QUESTION, on the Coleman side "models... 502 and 550B" is not easy to respond to. SO i'll comment on the 2 Coleman models but moreso ADD some model info which may be helpful. THE 502 It lacks heat and is heavier and bulkier than later models, if you're fine w/that... the 502 everyone should have one, done. IF you want Coleman options you might consider the orig 400 Brown and the 508 (vs a 502). They are lighter, the 2 share the same burner which has 2 levers, simmer well and put out significantly more heat. 508 size comparable w/the 502, i've read 10.500btu but not sure at least 8500 for sure. 400 BROWN, size is smaller (btw 576 Green Canadian is comparable to orig 400, just taller) 8500btu The 502 also has other replacement models, NOT my top choices: the 502A and 508A comparable sz to the 502, plenty of heat, they have 1 lever and most say do not simmer as well. THE 550B is a backpack stove (as is the 400). The 550B725 Exponent was the last of it's kind they've been dicontinued. No one here recommends unleaded gas but the 550B725 is the only Coleman 1 burner, as advertised uses 3 fuels: unleaded & CF and Kero w/kero gen installed. Aside from seeing a fair amt of dented tanks i can't knock the 550B, i have 1. Someone else may chime in but 550, 550A, and versions of the 550B all, on CF likely offer same performance. Newer... post 94 have plastic pumps. I wonder myself, Do the 550's score higher for reliability and pereformance than other backpack stoves (listed below)?. Those models that I've not mentioned yet only BECAUSE, and many here agree, the Original Brown 400 out performs those other similar (but they have 1 lever) models. Before i shed too much negativity, it's a crop of 1 lever similar/identical stoves, I could make good use of any of them (i have a 442 plenty of heat and touchy but i manage a simmer), they'll all do the job. Other backpack stoves, 1 lever, not suggested above are: 400A, 400B, 440 and 442 and versions of these. I dunno how much i may have helped but it's more to go on than "models such as 502 and 550B". best regards
Evening, Tim, I must correct OCM about one thing. The Model 400A has TWO levers, and is basically the same stove as the Model 400. The 400B, and later versions, are the emasculated models, and I do not recommend them. But, if you find a good 400A, and it's a good price, definitely check it out. FYI. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc P.S. Also, though the 502 does not have as much heat as some of the other Coleman models, it's still a fantastic stove, and we mentioned, everyone should own and use one!!! The 502 has more than enough heat for most situations.
RE: Coleman 502. I've never been understoved with a 502, I own four. The lil' debbil's are like stray kittens, they just get under one's skin and once de-flead and given a proper bath are lovely stoves, reliable as anvils. Used according to manufacturer's instructions almost all campstoves from the smallest (Borde) to the largest (Coleman three burner) are safe. Almost all problems with stoves can be laid squarely on the shoulders of ignorant, arrogant or incompetent operators. I have all sorts of stoves, I mean ALL and have yet to have an incident. Give them the respect and attention due any machine that generates heat and the only problems you'll know about are other people's. Gerry
So we got the memo the 400 Brown and 400A are basically the same. Thank you Doc for getting the accurate info out, sorry i goofed. I’m good with what I posted but also glad others give the 502 it’s due cuz I too DO like it, “reliable as anvils” there’s as stout a recommendation as I’ve heard, and I absolutely 2nd that. 502 is more reliable than anything I included in my post IMO. I have been *understoved btw so it does happen but the bulky factor is probably more why I look to other models ALSO. *That was more about 10 below temps than any particular stove! (now if you'll excuse me, i gotta find me a 400A !) OH and also for corrections/updates: i could have included the 533 along with the 502A, 508A, It's similar to the 508A but the 533 is so called dual fuel all 3 w/plenty heat. I’m not mentioning heat to take away from the 502, it’s just they put out more heat and worth mentioning that’s all.
If I would have had acess to a 502 in my backpacking days (~ 1960-67), I would have happily carried it and an extra pint of CF anywhere!
I didn't own a "real" stove until '68 or 69 after I had met 'n married Da Missus. It was one of the Svea 123's I've still got, the one in my Sigg Cooker, actually. Later on the Stove Pox symptoms began. The gestation period is quite variable, it can take years. I found a Tay-Kit for pocket change in a flea market then a Turm Sport. Then on ebay I found an Optimus 45 that didn't want to run so I surfed around and fell over this site. From he folks here I learned what I could do to revive it. Now it runs like new. I've got over a hundred stoves now and I've never been the same. Gerry
I am just wondering, does the 502 centennial look very much like the 508A? And what is the difference between a 400 and a 442?
