I know many stovies use methanol on a regular basis. I know there will be lots of members saying that they have used methanol for years with no ill effect. I never, ever use it. Methanol is a deadly poison, ethanol is not. Have a listen to this video, . . . . and maybe read this. The amount of alcohol I use in stoves is minimal, so the cost is irrelevant. I use ethanol.
@shagratork Here in Australia we can easily buy methylated spirits (metho, as it’s called here). It is adulterated ethanol: adulterated to stop it being drunk. I buy it by the 20 litre drum. Cheers Tony Methylated spirits MSDS: http://www.recochem.com.au/files/downloads/Methylated_Spirits_v7.pdf
Hi Tony. Yes, methylated spirits is approximately 90% ethanol and 10% other additives, including methanol. The methanol is added to make the meths poisonous, so that people don't drink it. The distinctive visual feature of meths is the purple colour provided by 'methyl violet'.
@shagratork In Australia, methylated spirits is not dyed; it’s clear. And it is greater than 95% ethanol. The bitter adulterant is not methanol. Cheers Tony
Appropriately enough these additives are called “Bitterants” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitterant In 1962, T&H Smith bought Duncan Flockhart, and then merged with along J.F Macfarlan to form Edinburgh Pharmaceuticals. In 1965 the Glaxo Group bought Edinburgh Pharmaceuticals, rebranding it Macfarlan Smith Ltd.[1][2] In 1958, while trying to develop dental anasthetic Lignocaine, the company had discovered the bitterest known substance, Denatonium. Developed as a denaturant for industrial alcohol, in the 1970s it was commercial marketed as Bitrex,[7] a safety additive for household products such as liquid detergents. Tesco were the first supermarket to display the Bitrex brand on their products.[1][2] Best Regards, Kerophile.
I use Everclear. Like the man said above, "Methanol is a deadly poison, ethanol is not" I'm just a happier cook and camper with one less thing to worry about.
Bugger, what a bunch of old washerwomen! Yes, methanol isn't good for you, but the accepted LD50 is 100 ml, 3.4 oz for us Yanks here. The antidote is ethanol, not a difficult poison to counteract, either. It's also not real fast acting, you've got time to deal with it. Yawn. I handle nicotine sulfate here. LD50 is listed as 30mg. Unlike your methanol, this will act transdermally, a drop on your hand, and you'll be one busy sod calling 999 (911, Yanks), and if you know what's on your hand, you've but a chance of surviving, if they get there in time and know the antidote to keep you alive until it wears off. You wont know, though, you'll be out cold in about a minute. Makes decent e-cig liquid, though. Methanol - a deadly poison, my arse! Murph
@Murph, may give you a call if I ever get around to mixing my own. Legal limit on liquids is now 18mg.max. (1.8%) I understood nicotine to be a good emetic if I did my background reading right a few years ago with a similar lethality to caffene in concentrate. You will.probably correct.me on this.
Thanks for your informative thesis, Murph. It is good to know that the thousands of published reports are all wrong. I will rest easy in my bed. However I am a bit worried because one of the reports says that people suffering from methanol poisoning often shout out, "My Arse!"
@Simes , legal limit here is the same, roll your own at your own risk! You're right on nicotine being a good emetic, lot of good vomiting does if you inhale it or ingest it IM, IV, or TD. The LD50 of caffeine is 200mg/kg of body weight The LD50 of nicotine is 50mg/kg of body weight. (30mg, depending on who's chart you read and means of ingestion) Substantial difference, I'm seeing here. If methanol was that toxic, it wouldn't be so readily available in so many forms cheaply, and without restrictions Again, old washerwomen. Murph
Phew, for a moment I thought you meant me. But you would have said 'old washermen'. I am sure our female members will appreciate your comment.
I assume @Murph you are using "old washerwomen" as an insult, but for the life of me I can't fathom it out. Being old isn't anything to be ashamed of neither is washing things and for a considerable number of decades. The sexes have been equal. Now *******, spavine piece of weasle shit, arseling, rancid turd, they are insults.
Thanks for that @Murph, not quite as toxic then. I knew there were ongoing efforts to produce insecticide from it. https://laidbackgardener.blog/2017/11/29/caffeine-a-powerful-organic-insecticide/ I'm still puzzled why there is a skull and crossbones on my eliquid and none on the coffee I buy.
Just need to look further, https://www.deathwishcoffee.com/ Far as methanol, it's what I use and if near a racing facility (Great Lakes Dragway is 20 miles from home) methanol racing fuel is almost as pure as anhydrous lab methanol and no more toxic than white gasoline. KM
@butthead I am very pleased to hear your comments. Can you publish proof of the low toxicity of methanol?
Technically not a racing fuel but often used as a base with additives, this is a turbocharged methanol injection supply to be mixed with water for water/methanol injection systems. More typical racing methanol often has some octane modifiers added. KM http://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=methpail&gclid=Cj0KCQjw45_bBRD_ARIsAJ6wUXQaZwxehpe2gKPlSPNPxg87DnY_rvfveBMME1kXqB2h9LiTO909qMkaAoa-EALw_wcB http://emsh-ngtech.com/methanol/methanol-in-racing/ KM
Thanks @butthead , there had to be one out there. Now have to find it over here don't I. @shagratork, I've had a quick look for the LD50 figures for Naphtha(petroleum), which is the principle ingredient of panel wipe and it would seem a lot higher than Methanol, ie much safer. As @Murph has said it depends on which MSDS you look at to make a valid comparison on the comment.
One other point specifically involving ethanol, being a Wisconsin resident the availability to purchase https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everclear_(alcohol) is an option! KM
Hi Simon I was trying to make the point that when given the choice of using ethanol or methanol with stoves, there is for me one answer - use ethanol. There are hundreds of studies/researches which talk about the dangers of ingesting via the mouth or the skin or lungs of small amounts of methanol. Sweeping statements of 'My Arse!' mean nothing at all. Ethanol is not expensive, so why take the chance?
