I recently bought an M1950 made by Fiesta in 1981. This stove has been nothing but problems from the start. I intend to rant a little about the process of rebuilding this little stove from hell; some of you might find it amusing. I know anyway that I am left feeling like some cosmic joke was played on me when this particular stove was picked innocently by some packing clerk from a shelf of maybe hundreds of others, a label placed on the package, and put on a truck bound for my home. The stove was purchased new old stock from an online military surplus vendor. After receiving the stove, I bought a gasket kit from an ebay seller by the name "cannon-joe". His kit included every single gasket I would need to make the 30+ years old seals airtight. Right, I thought this would be a straightforward job. I downloaded a copy of the army TM and proceeded to disassemble. When I got to the valve body, I found that I needed to put the valve inside of a vise to free it. The lock up of the sealant was tight. In twisting the tank to try to remove the valve, the valve bent, rendering it unusable. Not wanting to cause further damage, I gave the tank (with bent valve attached) to someone with proper tools. I paid to have the valve removed. Then, I had to buy a new complete valve body assembly from cannon-joe. Some days later, I received the valve assembly from ebay, and the tank back ready for reassembly. In attaching the new valve body, I found that the new valve had less threads than the old (original) one. I could only screw this one in about 1.5 threads deep. I felt it would not form a good seal. Luckily, cannon-joe had a replacement which he was good enough to exchange after I paid the postage to send back the one I had. Okay, after some days I received the (new) valve body with deeper threads. Trying this one for fit, I saw that it aligned the indicator knob (the 'on', 'light', and 'off' knob) in a different orientation, this time to the right of the pump, instead of the left as it was originally Okay, this coupled with the fact that the crappy paint applied by Fiesta had started to chip away in places, despite careful handling of the stove the entire time, prompted me to repaint the tank. The labels were not faring well at all either, so I thought I would apply new decals purchased from (you guessed it) cannon-joe on the (now) correct side, the right side of the pump. Three coats olive drab spray paint, and five coats of high temperature clear later, I was finally ready to reassemble. I used permatex (gel sealant) around the valve, waiting patiently a week for the sealant and the paint to cure. In the meantime, I was pleased with my general handiwork. The tank was better looking now than when it left the Fiesta factory. I was psyched about tonight. It was to be the first time I lit the stove in the month or so I had been working on it. Well, it still doesn't work I am at a loss as to what could be the problem. I cannot get a blue flame except when the stove is turned a little past the 'light' position. When turned fully 'on', a fireball of yellow flame shoots out This is after the stove is pumped generously and warmed up. Fit and finish of the Fiesta stove was crap from the start; I was never really impressed in this regard, although my paint job helps considerably. I wish I had picked up some other make, possibly older, from the Vietnam era as I hear they were made to a higher standard. And had I known at the time, I might have just bought a Coleman branded M1950, as these can be sent back to Coleman and undergo a 'factory' fettle for a reasonable price. Anyone have a quess as to why my stove behaves like this? Honestly, once I get this stove working, I may end up selling it if anyone is interested. I put a lot of money and time into this thing, and it does look really good. At the moment however it makes me almost sick to look at it Anyhow here the pictures. Please have a look and if anyone has a diagnosis, I am all ears.
Oddly enough, these stoves work better with LESS pumps, not more. I give mine about 7 or 8 pump strokes, light the preheat, and when I go to full throttle, at most I add 5 to 6 more pump strokes. Try that, might be part of the problem. Murph
Hello messkit, It 'looks' like your M1950 is working with the blue flame in the first photo. I guess you said it was in the 'light' position. I believe when it is in the light position, there is more air mixed in with the fuel so you get a blue flame almost right away or within a minute. When you turn the stove to the 'on' position, no air is mixed in and it is just straight fuel. (It's been a while since I messed with my M1950s but it should be operating on this principle. If not, somebody correct me if I'm wrong.) My experience with these stoves is when you put it in the 'on' position it can take a lot longer for the flame to turn blue. Mine take about 2 minutes to turn back to blue flame after the yellow (towering) flames die down. The generator has to catch up (heat up) enough to vaporize all of the fuel as it gets going. So, not to insult your intelligence, but did you wait out the towering yellow flames? I've had good success with these stove leaving them in the 'light' position a little longer than usual and then waiting out the yellow flames. What you can also do is prime the burner by filling with the priming cup with fuel (instructions say to turn the thing on for 3 seconds, thus filling the priming cup under the burner) or with methyl alcohol and priming the burner before actually turning the stove on to the light position. This will help too for stubborn stoves or dirty generators. What the generator needs is a lot of heat since the generator does not pass through the flames. You may also want to check the tightness of the burner basket or bell. That must also be tight in order to provide thermal feedback to the generator. If it is loose, the generator may cool and fail to vaporize the fuel. I've had that problem before too. These are just some things to check on. Hope that helps, sam
I feel for you! The disheartening sensation of a new stove expected to perform and fails is no fun. I'm no expert on these, but it looks like it doesn't vapourize properly. Is the generator complete with brass mesh inside? Also, I could add I think a healthy precaution to avoid flare-ups in any stove is to run it on maybe half throttle for maybe 30 sec befoe opening up completely. Many times preheating isn't enough to reach operating temperature. On a side note, I guess you learned the hard way (as have many of us) that it pays to find out whether you have a turd on your hands and fettle it to working condition before spending your love on it... The others beat me to it. Hope you get it working with these tips!
Hi Sam, thank you for your help. Tomorrow I will try letting the stove burn full throttle for a while and see if the flame settles. I also did not know about preheating with denatured alcohol in the spirit cup (like primus). Will definitely try this and see how it goes. Will post an update.
Hi pysen, The generator is complete. In fact the stove was sent with three, all new old stock generators stored in the pump handle and a compartment on the pot supports. The problem messing around with the M1950 is that the valve needs to be sealed with some sort of hardening gasket gel. Every time you disassemble the stove, you need to break this seal by force, like by putting the thing in a vise. Not the most convenient stove to test out while rebuilding. I trusted that if I reassembled carefully I could just "do it once, and do it right". Obviously I was mistaken in this case. The stove was placed in the light position for a while before turning it on fully (more than 30 seconds for sure). Methinks perhaps this Fiesta is indeed a turd. But who knows? I will give it another try tomorrow, this time trying the preheat and waiting out the fireball.
2 things not mentioned. First, how long did it burn on low before turning to full and how quickly did you turn it? If you don't let it settle to a steady blue flame (no pulses of yellow) or if you turn it too quick, the flame will go yellow for up to 20 seconds as the generator isn't hot enough to take the extra fuel. Second, does this have the 2 part burner bell? If so turn it till all the holes are open as wide as possible. Having these holes closed made my SMC 1950 burn as a yellow torch which a neighbour saw and called the fire brigade. Mine is touchy as well especially if primed with Coleman fuel. Much less exciting primed with meths
These M1950 stoves have no "high" or "low". There is only "off" "start" and "burn" settings. What you've shown is typical of an inadequately pre-heated burner. I'll try to explain how these stoves work in an effort to help you in its operation. These stoves operate very much like a Coleman lantern. After the tank is pumped up, turning the control to the vertical "start" position releases a mix of both air and fuel thru the generator. Not unlike a Coleman instant start. Turning the control to the far left is full open, fuel only is delivered. Unlike a Coleman instant start appliance, there is no direct play of the flame on the generator, the generator is heated by heat conducted thru the burner bell. Therefore, they benefit from priming, tho they can be started like a 530, it takes a LONG time to generate that way (just as a 530 does, up to a few minutes of huge flaring!). To start the stove, pump 10 pumps on a "full" tank (Coleman/Naptha/Gasoline). Open the fuel cock fully, count to 5, close the cock. This will place a bit of fuel in the priming cup, which should have a flameproof wick material in it (alcohol can be used to prime, but this is how the stove was intended to be used. All the soot remains hidden inside the burner area, and isn't an issue.). Check that the pump isn't leaking thru the NRV (this is the stove's real weak point!), and if all is well, light the prime. The prime will burn for about a minute or so. As the flame dies down, open the cock to the vertical start position. The burner will light, and burn blue with some yellow (mostly due to the still-burning prime beneath). After a minute or so, open the valve fully, pump up to desired power. Always check that the pump isn't "extending" after a pumping session. The NRV is NOT reliable, check EVERY time. If you wish to reduce power, you can turn the control cock to "start" while the stove burns. This will slowly vent some of the tank pressure via the burner. If left too long, the burner will go lean and the flame eventually go out, so you may have to intermittently cycle back to "run" for a moment, before going back to "start". It's possible to reduce the stove from full bore to a fair simmer this way, over about 5 minutes. The stove is best as a simple water boiler. My M1950 (Rogers, 1966) is one of my favourite stoves. It has personality in spades, and, pump NRV aside, is very well designed. If only they had a Coleman style pump with the shut-off screw in the NRV, I think it'd be near perfect. The paint has proven fragile on my example too, but it covers a stainless steel tank, so it's cosmetic only. It's a pity you decided to remove the valve body from the stove, as it should really never be necessary to do so, especially for a NIB stove. Nothing in that valve's guts needs servicing, unless it's incredibly gummed. Good luck, and I hope you come to enjoy your M1950. J
I too have an '81 Fiesta M-1950 https://picasaweb.google.com/114171463053197277461/USArmyM1950GasolineStove I have used it a great deal in the garden and out camping. I agree with you in the very sub-par appearance of the finish and the speed with which the paint flakes and the labels degrade. I quickly found that if it isnt preheated enough it will flare yellow (spraying liquid fuel from the jet) for some time. I have developed the following starting procedure: If the tank is 3/4 full (the fullest it should be) then pump 10 strokes. If half full, 20 strokes. If 1/4 full, 30 strokes. This is to ensure I have the same air pressure when starting the stove, whatever the fuel level. Ten strokes per quarter-tank of air is the rule. The fuel-air mixing feature of the 'LIGHT' position needs plenty of air pressure to work properly, I find. After pumping the last stroke I hold the pump down gently with my thumb for a few seconds to feel for any push-back. Crud from the pump tube can get into the NRV and stop it from sealing. This is good practice for any non-locking NRV with gasoline on the other side of it. Next I use the ON position to dump six seconds of fuel into the cup, not the three specified on the label. I have found that three seconds is just not enough to preheat the bell and generator sufficiently. I light the preheat and make sure the stove is faced such that control valve is upwind. A strong breeze can blow the preheat flame between the windshield and the tank. I let the preheat burn and listen for the jet to start hissing as the fuel in the generator starts to boil. I let this splutter and burn for a while longer while the heat builds. I open the valve to LIGHT while there is still a preheat flame around the generator. There will be spluttering and hissing and gouts of yellow from the burner but with the support of the preheat flame it should soon start to burn vapour rather than liquid. The flame will still be very yellow because the burning preheat is taking a lot of the oxygen. Sound rather than colour is the cue here. I leave it on LIGHT for a further ten seconds then then switch to ON. I expect to see another bout of minor spluttering but only with brief flashing 'crowns' of yellow flame from the burner. These should soon stop. The preheat is probably still burning at a low level causing tinges of yellow in the burner flame but the sound will be a steady roar and the flames will be short and strong. The flame will finally be completely blue once the preheat burns out. For some reason that I cannot explain it seems to need quite a bit more preheating than any other gasoline stove I own. Without enough preheat it will act like it wants to be a prop in an Alien movie. My M-1942 is much better behaved which I find really strange. I suspect the fact that it has no wick, and burns its preheat fuel much more quickly and strongly, is the reason. I may try taking the wick out of my M-1950 and see if that makes it preheat faster. [EDIT] Heh, Jason was quicker than me
I know the problem, 1981 was the year I graduated high school! 8) Flare-ups and uncontrolable flames are common. 8-[
Alright, lads. Just tried firing up my "Fiesta" which oddly enough is anything but festive. I resealed the valve body with a fresh helping of permatex. I swapped out generators for a fresh one. I made sure the attachment points at the heating cup and bell were screwed uber tight. I closed the bell baffles. I preheated with denatured alcohol. First picture is of the firing up after the meths burnt out. Second pic is at around 2 minutes. Third picture is 5 minutes elapsed time. I can see no difference in the flare up. I am considering whether it is even worth it now to tear this thing apart and rebuild again. I may just put it up on ebay as a "display purposes only" stove. I wonder how much I could get for it? Ethically speaking, I would have to disclose that the stove does not currently burn blue but does turn on, and that it may be made to work again by someone handier than I am. For now, it looks like I have a dud on my hands. In my limited knowledge, I suspect there is some air being mixed with the fuel somewhere, accounting for the sooty yellow flames, which is odd because when I open the filler cap after a burn I get plenty of hissing and pressure. Thanks everyone for your advice. It was a valiant effort Anyone who wants to venture a guess as to what's wrong with this stove, by all means don't be shy. I am willing to try again.
I get good info and parts from 'Lantern King', an authorized Coleman guy. I can PM his contact info if you want. Ken in NC
Hi Jason, With my gasket kit there was included the seals for the valve body innards. I wanted to replace these to be safe. Another thing too is that when I got the stove, I could hear rattling inside the fuel tank. I could not know what sort of debris was in there, metal shavings? pieces of disintergrated gaskets? I wanted to take everything out to clear the tank and also to inspect the inside of the tank for corrosion. All of which may or may not have been a waste of time, considering I am not yet able to get this stove to work.
Fair enough, but as you found, this is a joint best left intact unless there's overwhelming need to "get in". These stoves, with their stainless steel tanks, are pretty much immune to corrosion issues in the tank. When I get a new stove, I'll generally try to disassemble as little as possible in order to clean things up. Tanks like these, with their "fill restrictor tubes" are more tricky to get debris out of... Often multiple flush/swirl/dumps are needed. Anyway, I didn't really mean to critisize your removal of the valve, but it did complicate your fettle rather alot. A fair bet that the stove may well have operated had just the pump/filler assembly and maybe the valve packing been serviced. These M1950's are quite bulletproof and reliable, if only the pump doesn't leak. Good luck getting it running. They're pretty cool stoves. J
Hi David, Have you replaced the seals on the M-1942? I was interested in buying this stove, but in the end chose the M1950 because of the readily available parts. There is, as far as I can tell, no "gasket kit" for the 1942 and I would have to hunt for the correct size gaskets one by one. I like the 1942 better for the simmer function which I sort of need for my intended purpose. Your Fiesta looks great. I am happy you got one that works anyway. My plan was to keep this M1950 stove in my car along with a pint bottle of Coleman gas, a pot and windsheld combination from a Swedish military mess kit, and small mason jar of rice and a can of Spam. The rice and spam keep indefinitely, so I would always have the wares on me for an impromptu picnic, or food if I am broken down and stranded, and in a pinch I could siphon fuel from my truck to keep the stove in operation. For simmering the rice I was just going to use the windshield on my Swedish mess kit to create three inches of space between the flame and bottom of the pot (of course, I haven't been able to test this yet because of stove not functioning). I may just pick up an M1942 if the seals are not particularly difficult to obtain. Perhaps someone here has the gasket dimensions? It would make searching for new gaskets much easier.
The M-1942 uses the same seals as the M-1950, I got mine from Old Coleman Parts. I did need to trim off the protruding face of my NRV pip then flip it around to use the untrimmed face to get a good seal.
You say "I closed the bell baffles", does that mean no air is getting in? You need the holes in the bell wide open to allow the fuel to mix with air to the correct stoichiometic ratio before it hits the flame plate. This is a video of my M-1942 preheating and firing up. Can you post a video of your whole lighting process? We will surely be able to diagnose the problem then. [media=youtube]u38qYj4tuRc[/media]
