Help creating / bending Coleman 400 Generator

Thanks for the follow up!

I saw a youtube
with the guy getting vey good results using Berryman CARBURETOR & Parts Cleaner 1 Gal can.

Then I read the post you included. That's what makes it hard being on this site. Everyone here makes me feel so stupid.
The guy in that post put the cleaner inside the stove fuel tank and pumped it up. Thereby utilizing the stove's own pressure mechanism to deliver the cleaner PRECISELY where its needed under at least a modicum of pressure. You can pump it out and open the valve the allow the cleaner to make its way into and through the generator and spill down the stove. Do that a few times and you are more or less guaranteed to have the cleaner in the generator hopefully pooling in the jet chamber. It should never be lit!!!! Hence, if you don't light it then there is no heat for vaporization
and little to no vaporization if you keep the pumping pressure very low. So you've got liquid cleaner exactly where it needs to be. I bet I would have never thought of that!!!!!

This is all good stuff! Thanks!

 

One concern with pressure vessels is if the chemical will possibly crack the brass, as ammonia is said to cause stress cracks. It defeats the purpose of the cleaning.

 

If I were to try chemical warfare on carboned generators, it would be something like MEK or methyl ethyl ketone. It is toxic, and probably banned in some locations. California at least. Wear thick rubber gloves and allow for plenty of ventilation. We used it a lot in the .mil, and didn't hurt me any, didn't hurt me any, didn't hurt me any, jjdjficjccjcjkdo

 

Point well made Ken, but it’s perhaps more of concern in a stove with a brass pressure vessel/tank which holds the pressure for the period of firing. The steel tank of the Coleman should be ok, or did you mean the brass of the generator?

I’d be more concerned about the effect of the stuff on the anti-corrosion coating on the interior of the tank. If the cleaner strips that, then valve and generator are crapped up. Retrievably so? Dunno, but I’d not want the faff of cleaning them out or the prospect of swapping one hard-to-shift deposit for another.

 

Rather than pressuring fluid through the blocked generator, I've been messing around with an old brake bleeding kit found in the back of my garage.. Utilizing the vacuum pump and a small section of hose fixed to it, the other end can be hose clamped to the generator and cleaning agent sucked through the generator like a straw...



I have had some degree of success but an idea that needs tweaking ( a fair bit ) You can also see the crud being pulled out passing through the pvc tubing.. Must admit having an item of gear like this lying around seems ifffy.. memories of Austin Powers and his Swedish P***s pump being found at customs...!!!!!

 

Sorry... forgot to say.. Hello John, I hope you and your loved ones are well.

Andrew.

 

Must admit, I already found the old sporting goods store and bought a whole pile of em......won't tell what I paid, I am counting on them for my retirement.

 

@lanevitt Hi Andrew. Yes thanks, we’re all well. Hope that goes for you and yours too.

Clever idea with the brake bleeder. It sounds like a success so where’s the tweaking required?

John

 

I was simply commenting about the search for chemicals, undefined, that would eat away the carbon, and what unknown effects that they might have in an item that makes fire.

 

OK, we don't fill the fount with the potentially nasty carbon cleaning chemicals due to concerns over collateral damage to the pressure vessel and any other parts of the fire-making-machine. We just soak the generator by itself in the potentially nasty carbon cleaning chemicals in the hopes that might fix it. Since this whole exercise was to possibly reclaim & resuscitate dead and dirty generators it is OK if this course of action further destroys the non-functioning generator in yet an other unanticipated or new and unknown novel way. There is no downside other than the resurrected generator having a bad reaction to the potentially nasty carbon cleaning chemicals and possibly failing as a result while in use and under pressure and spawning a massive fuel leak and ensuing conflagration. Sounds like any other Wednesday.

You guys are definitely a different breed! I am sure this will sound childish, but don't you get afraid?

You guys all know things or are aware of things more deeply from a science perspective making me realize that somehow by the grace of God I've managed to stay alive all these years despite myself!

Nevertheless in the next few weeks I will soak an old, dead 400 generator and light it with a 10' pole and a fire extinguisher nearby! I used to love my stoves always appreciating there was a small inherent danger. But now I am terrified of them!

 

One good thing about fire is it is predictable. You just need to know what it will do in the circumstances we create.

 

I have repaired a few of these generators. What is the exact problem?. No fuel?, no simmer adjustment? let us know.

 

I used to have a Petromax lantern. The preston loop, generator, was plugged.
I did what some say is suggested. I did a Heat-and-Quench cycle with it.
Well, the shape of the preston loop did not allow flow of the steam well. I ruined the unit. Reproduced replacements are available, but, I had hoped to fix the original.

My point was only to be aware of the possibility of damage of an item no longer made. That is all.

i do have a 6 inch dia burn on my lower right leg from an accident and resulting fire while working on a not-so-old alcohol stove. S#!t happens.

 

With the generator detached from the stove, you could dribble the solution into it with a syringe. That way, you don't have to worry about it damaging the tank lining. What it does to the brass generator is another story, but at least that's not part of the pressure vessel, and there's a valve you can turn off if a crack does develop.

....Arch

 

The elusive Coleman Model 400 Peak 1 #400-499 stove generator
To respond:
cottage hill bill: I've been remiss. Here's a pic.
snwcmpr: Yes, thanks. Yes, these steps would be taken with a DEAD generator and I already anticipate its destruction as a possible outcome. That would be ok.
ArchMc: OMG! It's not a baby Otter! Apparently, you're a man of great patience! I'm not sitting there with a syringe for a week!
BlueFlame: How? Heat and Quench or derivatives thereof.
presscall: You 'da man! It never occurred to me you could bend and braze these things. But now I am aware of it and have potential solutions!
BradB: I just did figure out how to make this generator!!!!

First, I am much more curious about the nature of these various "clogs" / "carbon deposits". There seem to be wet ones that burn off and dry ones that seem completely inert and impenetrable as demonstrated by @presscall and his trusty dremel! This needs a lot of analysis as to when and how the clog formation process occurs. There may be a Best Practices that could be developed to radically reduce generator clogs through correct and knowledgeable user-operation! Who knows??

My repair approach is 2 fold. First, submerge the entire generator in an electrolysis tank for a week or two! Then submerge it in a carbon cleaning solution for another week or two. Then dry it out before installing in stove with a quick water rinse , a quick compressed air blow-dry and a quick heating it up with a torch. (Not a Heat and Quench thingy. Just a little quick heat to dry it out prior to installing and testing it! (I'll let you know the results probably after Christmas.) I use my electrolysis tank not infrequently. It never occurred to me to use it for this application.

My Fabrication Approach: This is just my 1st attempt. This still needs to be refined but this is a rough draft.
1st you need and old/dead 400-499 generator to start with because you need to scavenge and reuse that specific valve. I am assuming nothing really goes wrong with the valve. It's NOT a SHUT-OFF valve after all! It should be easily repairable if there is an issue. Cut off the generator at least 1/2" above the valve. Probably more. Get a new generator from available NOS for a Coleman 440/442/533/502/ and/or 400B/508A possibly others. Must find one or all with the corresponding jamb nut and equivalent flare-out. However, it can always be re-flared to match. The other side is where the 2 generators are sized together and cut with a sleeve added to braze the 2 together. I saw the sleeve joined technique in a Coleman NOS generator made that way still in its factory plastic bag. So, overall, I believe its doable. Its the valve integrated into the generator as a 1 piece unit that makes these items so unique I believe.

To @presscal: Thanks for your example of thinking and doing. I never allowed myself to think about this thing. I never knew how! It has always been a mystery that intimidated me. I feel liberated because I felt comfortable enough to come up with a theory with this thing. So I already feel great even if everything I said is completely wrong.

 

@Boron40 I hope you realize that your photo is in error. The cleaning needle/eccentric should have the wire pointing to the jet. I only assume you photographed it incorrectly.....but I have been wrong before.

 

You’re very welcome. I applaud your sense of adventure! Looking forward to seeing a sequel.

 

@Boron40 Not sure how electrolysis will help you. Electrolysis is basically electroplating in reverse. You're trying to clean the inside of the generator and you're not going to get any electron flow going in there. Also what are you going to use for an anode? Ferrous anodes won't help much. If you mean ultrasound, then yes that might be a good start.

Now that I see it, I would be tempted to unsolder the tube from the valve body, then you may be able to pull the coil out of the tube and cleaning will be much easier. I am assuming there is a packing in the valve which was damaged it not destroyed by pulling the eccentric wire out of the valve. If you this post Repack Tip Cleaner - The Coleman Collectors Forum may be of help in repacking the valve.

@presscall John correct me if you think I've steered him wrong.

 

@cottage hill bill Sounds good to me Reese. Quaint anecdote on CCF about an old (‘real’) hardware store. I’ve not seen one of those in many a year. I get flexible graphite sheet, cuttable with scissors, from CCS member @Trojandog.

 

That link is great. I have been reusing graphite when I can and still have most of the graphite sheets I also received from @Trojandog