i find my minicap handy during outdoor use, as i frequently operate QRP portable (low-power high-frequency amateur radio) at local parks - it's bad enough trying to dig signals out of the band without the sound of a small kettle on a roarer heating water for coffee not that the roaring sound isn't music to a stovie's ears... i enjoy my Optimus No. 1, but it can seem quite loud! willie on the humid Gulf of Mexico
I love the roar of the old stoves & the enhanced silence that follows turning the stove off - Colin Fletcher was the same. I love the silence of my Trangia but with the old classics like the 123 etc the noise is part of the fun & charm. As a backpacker as well as a stove collector I was amazed at how much extra weight the Quietstove cap adds to the MSR XGK. An extra 10%! (see link below). The original roarer plate is negligable. I'll stay noisey thanks (or buy a silent stove for around the same money)! Another benefit of the noise is you can be better tuned-in to what a stove is doing when multi-tasking. Another PIA, for me, as someone who has to have a lunch time brew up, is the cool-down time. 5-10 minutes according to this review: http://www.trailspace.com/gear/quietstove/burner-cap-for-xgk-ex/review/25883/ I have a couple of BD caps & I see them more of craft pieces & collectable alternatives to the rare silent convertors of old from Primus & Radius - weight is unimportant.
I won a BD Cap for my 123/8R a couple of years ago on this site and treasure it. However, they have become so expensive that I am reluctant to take it to the field for fear of losing it! I have it double stainless steel wired to an 8R burner and it is indeed very quiet. So much so that it is somewhat un-natural. I agree with Ross that the roarer sound is a part of outdoor life for me.
My DragonTamer cap for my DragonFly was used last winter to cook up a stew/soup, silently running nicely for almost an hour. Trip report was posted to the Action Gallery. Duane
Good Morning, Fellow Stovies! I love Hazet's thread, because I do believe that Terry and Geeves are absolutely right, and it was meant as a clever poke of fun towards the QS folk. I also think that Trevor, whom I know is an intelligent Gent, with a fine sense of humor, was also trying to do the same thing. Jon's humor was just right, but I fear that Trevor's response was SO subtle that few members "got it". My hat is off to Hazet, and to Nick, and BBBB, for taking the ball and running with it! We all were in need of a good rib tickler, and this thread, and BBBB's, provided much enjoyment as such! HUZZAH, Lads!! 8) I also agree with Ross, Terry, and a few others who say that the roarer burner stoves do not bother them, and in fact, are part of the attraction of camping and using a stove! It's the same for me, and has been ever since I got my first SVEA 123, 8R, 00, and X-GK. In fact, my Firefly stoves, from MSR, are the loudest of all my stoves, and I still love that throaty roar, and for all the reasons mentioned by Terry and Ross!! (Not to mention Colin Fletcher..... but, Ross took care of that important task!! Well done, Spiritburner!) Finally, I have used my Omnifuel with a BD cap for several years, now, and have not seen the need to go back to the roarer flame spreader, thought I continue to keep it in the stove bag, just in case I do want to make the switch. Since the Omni is surrounded by a wonderful windscreen, it performs like a medal-winning Champ in the outdoors, in all weathers, including super high winds, sleet, rain, and snow, and also more temperate climates. I've only used it up to about 7,000+ feet in elevation, so far, but suspect it will continue to work a treat, even at higher elevations. I still need to do a comprehensive test of how fuel efficient it is, compared to the roar OEM flame spreader that came with it. I could easily do that in a single weekend, and may well attempt it around Thanksgiving, when we have a backpacking trip on tap. I'll keep you all in the loop. Thanks for all the understanding, humorous fun, and solidarity that we all share here at CCS! This place just keeps getting better and better, by leaps and bounds!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc That having been said,
Heya Fellers I really don't want to pull a shameless promotion, but I would just like to "get right" with readers on what may or may not be misunderstandings on both products. QS is welcome to chime in if he (not them or we) feels I've mis-portrayed anything. To me, it's always been about honesty. You'll have to judge for yourself if I'm being honest with you. 1. Caps as collectors items Yep. As Stu points out, many of mine have yet to be burned by their owners. I'm guessing one-third to one-half remain (false) "virgins". (Every cap I make gets a test burn by me before it's polished.) 2. High price Yep. As Kristian123 points out, BD146 just sold for $286 to a buyer here in the US. It started at $0.99. I can't explain it. Seems crazy to me, too. Is it really worth it? I can't see how. 3. The other high price As Shagratork points out, the QS caps are $119 and that seems spendy, too. Especially for a mass-produced product that I imagine must cost a third of that to produce. 4. Noise vs quiet As Clancambo points out, noise can be cool. I have roarers, too. When I camp next to a rapid, a roarer is great. Why use a silent burner or a silent cap? But, when I'm on quiet waters, lake or river, I go silent. In a group, I've found no one else seems to carry roarers anymore. They all have those little silent isobutane stoves. It's nice to be considerate and get along with others. I don't appreciate the nasty stares and dirty looks when conversation is brought to a halt by my Svea 123. I like to hear the wildlife when I have the chance, too. So, I switch to the silent cap. Your call, folks. Silent caps give you choices. Do whatever works best for you in your situation. I don't make anyone buy anything. It's just an accessory. 5. Windy conditions Trojandog mentions wind. Use the right tool for the job is my motto. Any silent stove or silent-capped stove will probably work less pleasingly than it's roarer counterpart in windy conditions. I've never said to replace the burner plate with the cap. Bring 'em both, is my policy. That said, when I'm in windy conditions, I hunker in a natural windbreak and pull out whatever windshielding I've brought along. Usually silent caps or silent stoves will handle wind as well as a roarer if properly wind shielded. If it's so stormy that cooking is that difficult, I usually eat some snacks and snuggle in my bag 'til the storm has passed. And, I think if you look about the site, you'll see caps being used in plenty of outdoor conditions. Snowgoose seems to do just fine in his marvelous posts with silent capping his stoves. For me, it's just nice to be able to shut the stove up with a silent cap when I finally hike down off the windy ridge to the sheltered still lake. I like to listen to the call of the loons. (the birds, not the campers) 6. As Spiritburner points out from the review he cites, caps add weight to the pack. It's why I include the weight in ounces and grams in my eBay listings. Let the buyer decide. For the gram-counters, silent caps understandably seem like an extravagance. Then again, I can't see serious gram-counting backpackers carrying a heavy Dragonfly, Omnifuel or traditional brass stove anyway. There are too many much lighter stove choices available. QS's caps tend to be 10-25% heavier than the ones I make. The manufacturing process and QS's design interpretations dictate that heavier weight. And, as is pointed out in the review that Spiritburner links to, QS caps have a long cool down period. Mostly this is because of their heavy construction. They are 40% stainless steel and 57% bronze. Stainless steel is a poor conductor of heat, so once hot, they take a long time to cool down. (I base this on my use of actual QS caps and research of QS production methods.) My caps take a while to cool, too. But, as they are thinner walled, there's just less mass to hold the heat. They perform similarly to traditional manufactured silent caps like the #5. I think one would adjust to the cool-down period of QS caps with a little use. I've never claimed that you can get faster boil times with my caps. I don't see how that could happen. I've claimed they make your stove quieter - they do. I also think that the better mixing (carburetion) of fuel vapor and air probably make silent caps of either flavor more efficient fuel-users over roarers. But, it may not be by much and I haven't proven it. The CO production of my DT caps was lab tested by folks who know how to do that sort of thing. I was told that they are quite low in CO production, only making it about a third of the way to the regulatory cut-off point. The testers were surprised. This could vary with pan size and stove operator, of course. I'm glad that folks like my caps. Heck, for what I think are obvious reasons, I'm even glad they like QS caps. Thanks! I'm sorry they are expensive. At 6-8 hours of concentrated hand-building, I reckon that's the nature of the beast with the BD caps. Custom stuff never seems to costs less in any arena. Again, sorry. I'm hoping that the mass-produced caps from QS will come down in price since my research shows that they cost QS so much less than $119 to produce. But, of course, that's totally up to QS, market forces and pressure from you stove users. I dearly hope I won't get slammed for making this post, but it seems like that's the way of these things sometimes. I hope you see me as being fair - trying my best. If you made it this far, thanks for reading and indulging my verbose need to clarify matters. Cheers, Gary
Hey'ya, Dawg, Nicely said, my Friend! Well done, and thanks for your thoughts on all this. Take care, keep the faith, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Hello Doc I am pleased to see that you 'got it'. You have known me a long time. Maybe I am too subtle sometimes and should be more direct. It is a shame that I was so taken in by the initial post and took the bait.
Howdy, Shagratork, You are very welcome, my Friend, and know that your post gave me a huge smile of enjoyment!! I've missed my own share of the typical Brit humor, so I can't fault others for missing it this time. I, however, got a great kick out of your comments! Very well done, Mate! 8) Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Hey Gary, Thanks for your very detailed post. I cherish my BD minicap as a valued collectors' item, 5 times more expensive than the cost of the Radius 42 it crowns. I use it often. It certainly makes the stove prime faster, and I believe it also shortens the boil time. In short - I love it. Yonadav
Has anyone ever thought of stamping caps out of thin stainless steel in the same manner as modern gassy caps or assembling them from crinkle and flat washers like the Colemans. Bernie has done an excellent job unravelling the mysteries of silent caps and producing a version that looks like a classic cap which is absolutely correct on a classic stove but is it the right answer on a modern stove like the dragonfly or nova. Works perfectly is only part of the question. Can a lighter cap be made that works just as well? Is it worth trying?
I am glad that people "got" my post. I felt that if there can be a thread extolling the virtues of the QS silent cap, there should be a companion thread for doling out praises of the BD caps. This way, feedback on both can be posted separately, rather than one thread turning into a back and forth whine and bitch-fest. I really do love my BD cap. It's here on my desk, a place where it resides when I am not using it, because I like looking at it, and it inspires me to get out and use a stove somewhere. Also, I love the roar of my roarer burners too. Sometimes I just want a little variety in my stove experience.
Since I've only been collecting stoves under 3 years now, I like the roarers better in any breeze as you can hear them going. Plus, I'm usually alone when car camping, there is no one to annoy. Duane
Hi Duane When I was much younger and did lots of rambling, fell-walking, rock climbing, kayaking and sailing, the stoves I bought and used were all roarers. In fact the outdoor activities places only stocked roarers and I did not even know at the time that silent burners had ever been produced. There was always a comfort derived from that healthy roar. It never even entered my mind to want to silence it. The first silent burner I bought was a Trangia. I used it widely for a couple of years, but after getting sick of black pan bases and accidentally getting black on clothes and equipment, no matter how careful I was, I eventually went back to my 96 and 210 - and their healthy roars. Of course, in the years since, I have used many silent burner stoves in the outdoors - no problem if well-shielded from the wind. Some of my favourite roarer stoves were obtained for as little a $5, and so I could never justify to myself the cost of the excellent caps from BD or QS - besides, I would lose that comforting ROAR!!
Trevor, I'm single, no debt except the credit card from buying stoves. I've lived in small towns most of my life, late in getting internet use, so I never knew what was available to buy except for USA magazines and local stores. I only bought local, so many brands that I might have seen in magazines, I did not know if they were off brands or a good thing. Plus, with me gettng interested in stoves the last few years, I've gotten caught up some to the point that I am out camping or backpacking most weekends and really look forward to using a different stove each time. It almost takes as much time to decide which stoves to take as it does to pack up my gear. I'll be buying fewer stoves now as I have upgraded my motorcycle from a 1992 to a newer bike, so funds will be getting spent to get it set up for camping. There goes my newer pickup fund, taking a big hit. Duane
Hi First things first. I'm not silent burner conversion bashing here, I have one of Bernies early minis and it has shown itself in some of my posts. Sigg But if you don't like the sound of your roarer, take a step back! Seriously they're not that loud, they just sound loud because you're sitting over them. As for disturbing other campers do you lads use bunk tents? A windscreen 3/4 round your stove and your body between it and anyone else no problem IMHO. Having said that Ross diagnosed my 123r wasn't burning right just from the sound three tents away earlier this year. He also slept through 3 courses cooked on the same stove whilst camped nextdoor last month. Mind you world record numbers of 111s confined under a brick bridge arch is loud. Do we still hold that record, been quiet on that front for a while.
Hi Gary, Reckon it can be beaten if we really want to do it! How about next Newark? Anything to get this spit-fight off the boil. Sorry, but this thread is getting very boring. In Britain we have too much fettling to do to get involved in such trivia. Steve.
I guess that'll explain the breakages? I'd wondered why damaged had occurred on some that had been dropped. Not something I'd expect from 100% stainless steel.
And still it goes on Ain't you guys got anything better to do than keep this squabble going I hope you all run out of bull***t soon I do not have either of the subject "silent burner conversion caps" and never intend to have one. What about having several of each type of stove, silent and roarer, and take whatever is appropriate for the trip Goodnight and as a late Irish comedian said "Jesus loves you but everyone else thinks you are a ----- (fill in your own word to fit)
