Morning, All, I finally broke down and bought a JetBoil when I had a 20% off coupon, and some dividend money to waste. Got a brand new JB for only $3 out of my pocket. I'm glad I own it, but truthfully, after firing it up just once, "just because", I've never fired it up again. The MSR Reactor has earned my trust in the years I've used it. Like Ken, SB and I have used it for making tea whilst traveling, and not once has it caused a single problem with smoke alarms and such. Whilst enjoying our tea, we also cook up some 5 minute oatmeal, with dried fruit, for breakfast. Works a treat, and is totally quiet and reliable. We have also used the Reactor at many Living History events, as we like our tea inside the canvas tent, before getting into the 18th century mode. Other than I very stupid blunder caused by himself once, even down to 16°F, inside that tent, the stove worked perfectly. By the way, that MSR video was hilariously funny, and I've saved it for future enjoyment!! Thanks for sharing that, Gary!! Ross, if we ever get to enjoy a Stove Gathering together, I will be happy to let you stomp my JB into bits, but only under two requirements: The JB has to be fired up and burning; and, we get to film the entire episode and post the video here at CCS!!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Mark
To answer your question, Ken, you could check this link at the Zenstoves site: http://zenstoves.net/Fuels.htm#LP My short answer to your question is “yes”, but the exact limit will depend on the user, their methods, and the gas mix in the canister. Long answer: Basically, without getting too science-y, canisters are made of too light a gauge metal (for low weight) to be able to handle pure propane. Propane will flash to a gas down to temperatures of about -42 deg C or -44 deg F. But, propane has a high vapor pressure and would explode canisters with their thin metal walls if canisters were filled with 100% propane. (It’s why those 1-pound propane bottles that Coleman sells are so stout and heavy.) Soooo, manufacturers blend in butane and isobutane gases with the propane which reduce the pressure inside the canister so the canisters don’t go boom.Butane and isobutane have lower vapor pressures. Butane will only flash to a gas down to about 30 deg F or -1 deg C. Isobutane is in between, flashing to a vapor at around 12 deg F or -11 deg C. In sub-freezing conditions, the butane in a canister will remain liquid and on the bottom of the canister. All the propane will flash to a gas and go to your stove. Then, you are faced with fuel you can’t get out of the canister unless… You raise the temperature of the canister by warming it… or… You invert the canister and allow liquid butane to flow to your stove. You can warm the canister against your body or in your sleeping bag before use and if it’s not too cold out, you can probably get your cooking done before it cools off. The liquid in the canister turning to gas also cools the canister (science stuff), so you can’t probably get away with the jacket warming trick when it’s way cold. If you use the liquid-feed method (inverted canister), then the liquid fuel has to be heated to vapor at the stove head, usually with an overhead or side vaporizing tube (the Joule has one). The liquid gas flashes to vapor in the tube bathed by flame and is conducted to the jet. For some reason I’m not really clear on, yet, liquid-feed (inverted) modes seem to produce more btus than gas-feed. Maybe someone else can clear that up. If you check the exact mixes in canisters produced by various manufacturers, you will find than the percentages of the three gases vary widely. (Look at the MSDS data sheets for the info.) Ideally, you would want as much propane and isobutane and as little butane as possible for cold weather conditions. For above freezing, it really doesn’t matter that much, imo. MSR Isopro is a good cold weather mix as is Jetboils house mix, iirc. They cost more though. I usually use the cheaper Primus Power Gas canisters that are common around where I live. I am not out when it's lower than 20 deg F and the jacket/sleeping bag warming works for me down to those temps. I'm definitely not "Conrad Radical" and I don't go to "Mt. Deathwish". Thanks for thanks on the video, folks, but I can't take credit. Someone posted the link to it here at CCS a good while ago. If I could remember who, I'd give them the credit. (It cracks me up enough that I have it bookmarked.)
We had a Scout that got a brand new JetBoil for his wilderness survival training. I think that after disassembling for cleaning the oatmeal out of it he left part of it with his tent buddy, part in the scout trailer and only returned home with the larger bits. Not sure if he ever got it all back together. I'll stick with my 123 or No.71 and cook set. KISS - keep it simple 'silly'
DANG, Ross, the mental picture of you doing that was hilarious!!! Guess I'd better book my flight for the Newark event, eh??!! God Bless! Still Smiling about that mental image, Mark
Running off what Berniedawg mentioned about isobutane cartridges being too weak to handle straight propane, look what can happen when one is filled with propane! Here are some pictures come from Primus' Facebook page, located here: Link to Primus Facebook photos EEK!!! Poor Omnifuel... The story accompanying the pictures: Warning for refilled gas cartridges!! A few days ago, I got a mail from a customer that was out climbing Peak Pamir in Tadjikistan, and I felt that I need to share this warning. At the altitude of 5-6 000 meters above sea level, the temperature was rather low, and the original gas cartridges (sold for 8 € / pcs) didn’t work at all. So, the customer got a chance to buy some refilled gas cartridges for only 3 € / pcs and containing a “better” gas, according to the salesman. But, when he started his cooking, he put the gas cartridge on top of the pot in order to get it just slightly warmer, and just after a few seconds it exploded! The power of the explosion pushed the pot all the way down over the OmniFuel stove, it threw the stove and pot meters away. Luckily, the user survived with a few scars and some minor injuries, but at least he was still alive! The reason to why it exploded was that the gas cartridge was most likely refilled with pure propane, which generates much higher pressure than the butane / iso butane and propane mix that the cartridges are built for. So, please watch out and make sure that you are using the products in a proper way! See you out there! / Niklas, Product Manager @ Primus PS. Do I need to mention that the stove itself is still working??
I am not sure if the Joule will be much of a hit, it looks to heavy compared to the Sol's. I have owned a JetBoil PCS and GCS since they were first sold in Australia. My PCS now looks like this JetBoil Hanging stove. I recently used my Sol (Al) for the first time in New Zealand. We did only boil in a bag cooking. In 8 days of tramping in the South Island mountains and boiling water for 2 with lots of cups of tea and cup-a-soups, we still had an estimated 1/3rd gas left in a 230g canister. The speed at which the Sol boiled the water was at times too fast. While there are a few things that I do not like about the Sol like the ill fitting lid, overall I was very impressed with the Sol's performance. Tony
Yeah I'm sorry if my original post was a bit spartan. I was interested in what others thought. In afraid it would look a bit leading if I were to say that it's the stupidest thing I've seen this week. (I've seen a couple of pretty stupid things) It seems to me that this appeals to folks who are either misinformed or flat out scared of liquid fuel stoves. In most situations a piggyback propane stove would do just as well. Plenty of the modular modern stoves allow for an inverted gas can if one absolutely must have butane. Trouble is that it wouldn't be original at all. This is certainly original. I'm sure there is a lower limit to as to the efficiency of liquid feed butane. I don't care to know what it is because I believe in the right tool for the right job. As for the copyright on the photo... I'm probably guilty as charged. It's just swiped from a google image search. I don't have any rights to it. It should probably be taken down. I'll try. Nope. I can't. Continuity lock and all that. If a mod wanted to go in and replace the photo with a link to the jetboil joule product page the thread would probably still make sense. I'll think twice in the future. I was pretty excited to post and I forgot about the rules. As a professional photographer I understand why they are there. I'm pretty pleased with some of the interesting things going on in this thread though.
Ross has long voiced his hatred of Jetboil stoves. Doc has lit his Jetboil once but says he will not do so again. snwcmpr sold his Jetboil after a month. I have looked at display examples of the various Jetboil stoves and they look well made. They are compact and all parts fit inside the 'cup' for backpacking. They are not cheap but are priced similarly to their competition. I have looked on Youtube at people who are using them and they seems to work fine. So my question is, what am I missing? What is wrong with them?
I picked up a 'Jetboil Flash' at a car boot sale last year and gave it to my son. He say's it is OK for a brew whilst on a day hike, but no good for anything else. And it's purple. Say no more. I wonder if in 50 years time, old farts like us will getting all excited over finding a rare Jetboil? Terry
Aside from my personal opinion, I can understand why they are loved. For those that ONLY boil water these have got to be great. For dehydrated, cook in-bag meals when all you need is a source of hot water, these have got to be quite handy. The only thing that ever goes inside the JetBoil pot would be water... and maybe black coffee or plain tea. I would rather take a severe beating that clean the tall narrow pot. AR
Morning, Trevor, and All, The reason I'm not that interested in actually using my JetBoil (Flash) is that whatever it can do, my MSR Reactor can do far better, much faster, and with more depth of use. I cannot even cook oatmeal in the JetBoil, but can do it in the Reactor fairly easily, if the oatmeal is the 5-minute type, and if I stir it frequently. Not scorching the pot bottom, either. I am glad to own a JetBoil, but mainly because it really makes me appreciate what the Reactor can do!! When "out and about", add in some wind, and you will quickly see that the Reactor will simply leave the JetBoil in the dust!! One test is all it took for me to realize which stove is the better one. We are not "boil in the bag" folks, either, and would rather have better tasting, more nutritious and wholesome foods, so we need a stove that can do other things than just boil water. I'll be the first to admit that the Reactor is not going to be a gourmet cook's dream. But, it will work to cook simple meals, if care is taken, and if you stir often. The JetBoil simply cannot match the Reactor in any way, shape, or form, OTHER than it is a little lighter. So, for me, the JetBoil, one-note Johnny that it is, will languish in a box, or maybe on a shelf, whilst the Reactor gets taken along on many a trip, be it in a hotel room, or a day hike, or an overnight. That's my two cents, anyway, and if others wish to love their JetBoil stoves, hey, that's OK with me. The JetBoil is just not my own cup of stove/tea! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Mark
A competent chef can cook ok with a JetBoil with a little care. There is nothing “wrong” with them. Fans of liquid fueled stoves on a classic stove website may not appreciate them and wish to stomp them. That’s to be expected I suppose. They’re just tool - no soul, no history, and no shiny brass - just like an Omnifuel or a Nova. But, they are just a stove - not Satan incarnate. I walk my talk: May 2013. 5-days. John Day River, Oregon. Clarno to Cottonwoods. (Do a Google to learn more about the trip logistics and details.) Night one - Steamed asparagus in the boiler with the JetBoil pot support. Then, Albacore tuna veggie rotini with alfredo sauce in the JetBoil. Morning coffee on the Radius 43B. I like the vintage ones better when I’m not as hungry. Who will use the JetBoil Joule? Thirties something outdoorsy backpacking mom and dad getting to a trail camp in the evening with their three hungry, tired and cranky kids, ages 7 to 11 in tow. Throw each kid a package of Mountain House and by the time the whining gets unbearable and the kids have got their foil pouches ready, dad's got hot water boiling and ready to pour. Minutes later - quiet munching from kids and a sigh from beleaguered parents who are rethinking the whole contraception thing and are glad they dropped the $200 on the Joule for the scant moments of peace to recharge.
Morning, Gary, You made me hungry with those asparagus photos! Did you use pouch/albacore, or canned, for making the noodle dish? And, did you boil your noodles before adding the sauce and albacore? Looks like a tasty dish, in any case. I've not seen a boiler like you used. Where did you get that, if I may ask? Thanks, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Mark
Hi Doc The boiler is made by GSI Outdoor. I bought it at a local store. It’s been with us for several years. It was reasonably priced. Their new ones are flashier. http://www.gsioutdoors.com The tuna in the photos is from a Bumblebee Albacore Tuna Steak, either mesquite or dill. They come in pouches of 4 oz. They can be broken up before you open the pouch for chunks. The asparagus came with us because it was in the fridge and would have gone bad before we got home from the trip. It was a first-time experiment that worked out well. Everything except the tuna is added in to the JetBoil pot in the beginning and cooked. The precooked tuna is added at the end just to warm up. Chicken also comes in foil pouches and can be used in the same way. I made myself one of these for lunch today (it was *way* too much food, but I ate it all - burp!). You can see my video on the subject here: http://youtu.be/yeFa8FgEpoU One thing to note is that the JetBoil Joule reportedly has a regulator in the fuel feed which according to the product literature and product manual would make it easier to cook/simmer than my demonstration with the JetBoil PCS in the video. Cheers, Gary
Hey, Dawg, Thanks for the video, and cooking instructions. I can see how that would work, nicely. I would try it with my Reactor, except that, without the piezo starter of the JB, it would be more of a hassle, I'm thinkin'. Which model of JB were you using? Mine is the "Flash" model, and looks smaller than the one you use. We've made our own sauce, in the old dehydrator, and maybe that would work well with the tuna, and noodles dishes. I'll have to give it a try. Thanks, again, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Heya Mark Well... I sorta remember my Reactor as having a good simmer back when I still had it. So, maybe not issue with the Reactor like with the restarts of the JetBoil due to its touchy control. I sold the Reactor off because it was an odd in-between size for the two of us. Too big for one person, but too small for two, least the way we eat. So, I may not remember the simmering too well. But, awesome stove in all other respects. 'Course now they have three sizes. The JB's we have are the PCS models. They pre-date the Flash, but are similar. Same size, no heat indicator like the Flash and about an ounce heavier for some reason. Link We used to boat frequently with a couple who cooked all kinds of awesome chow pre-trip and then dehydrated it to pack into ZipLocs. They'd toss their dehydrated food into a quart Nalgene with water in the morning and have it soaking in there all day in their boat (tandem whitewater canoe) to rehydrate. By camp they'd pretty much just need to heat it up since the stuff was precooked to begin with and rehydrated during the day. That sort of plan would work well with the JB or the Reactor I should think. It's always fun to work this stuff out at home before trips. Cheers, Gary
Gary, Wasn't that the same meal you did up at the Oregon meet? I remember you mixing noodles and a pouch of... something.
