I would say look around for a primus Multi-fuel... there was a flood of them on the market a couple of months back as overstock... in the $50-60 range. Well made and established brand. burns gas cartridges or any liquid out there (not alcohol) Heavier though. When they say 3.5 minute boil... they MEAN 3.5 minute boil.
Hi, A while ago here on CCS we had a topic about the new MSR reactor stove... Link As I said in that topic for me the Reactor and the PCS version of the Jetboil are really highly specialised water heaters. Using a jetboil ( and I have for a while) to try and cook with is a bit of a waste of time. The Jetboil canisters are a bit of hooey.. and are expensive the upside is they fit into the pot/cup as the Overall diameter is smaller than the a standard gas canister. I don't think that EN417 ( that's the international standard for screw threaded small gas canisters) canisters will dissapear any time soon these are fine to use with the jetboil you just cannot fit them into the cup.... Camping gaz had a habit ( when they were not owned by coleman) of releasing stoves that only took their canisters: Globetrotter GT, Rando 360, the easy click system. I guess it was their way of tying you to the hip for the stove and canister.. Wiil the jetboil become a Outdoor equipment Icon ????.... IMHO it already is to a larger extent.. It's re-invented the integrated cooking vessel/ stove concept in the outdoors. Buy one and keep it mint and in 20 years we'll be paying big dollars for it on Ebay I'm sure of that.... What's interesting to me about the jetboil is more what it says about us as consumers. The stove is a very good special purpose design. As such it's become an icon for performance based on this people buy ( consume) the stove when I'm guessing 80-90% have little use for a very efficent water boiler and actually want to make bacon, cook pancakes fry eggs etc.... I'm not dissapointed with my PCS it does exactly what it's meant to do heat water / liquid with minimal fuss and very efficently. If I wanted to have a very efficent stove I could cook proper meals on I personally would look at the Primus ETA power system. My 2 cents. Cheers John
If its a singe function dedicated water boiler you want, forget it. Think Kelly Kettle. The JetBoil for the Ages. (Mine is in the mail. Hurrah!) But get out there and have fun with whatever you get, that's the main thing. Regards, Ridge.
there's a jetboil type of eta stove now... the eta express... It's kind of funny this scrambling of these companies to keep up with the jet-sons.
I'm with you on the Kelly Kettle. I sometimes carry that with my Trangia and brew on that while cooking. The Kelly actually has an additional (or several) advantage over the Jetboil, in that it'll with with wood, paper, dry grass (not that kind) or with an alcohol burner and you can even cook or fry over it at the same time. It's fast too. Back to the topic, I see system stoves tend to get a pasting over here. The ETA Power got a lukewarm reception and the MSR reactor a pasting. But in truth the Trangia and Nansen Cookers are something of systems in their own right. If you like the efficiency, simplicity and fuel flexibility of the Kelly, what do you think of the Titanium Goat Tri Caldera? Is it just not old enough a name to have garnered any respect?
That's a bit of an overstatement. If you said "32F" you would be closer to the truth. Even so, I have used them at colder temperatures than that. It is fair to say that most cartridge stoves will not perform as well as a liquid stove at colder temperatures, but even that is less true than it used to be. I don't have a handle on the science of why this is so, but it has to do with reformulated gas mixtures and cartridge design. Anyway, even if there is a problem with cold temps, all you have to do is warm the cartridge a bit and it will work. It's not ambient temp, it is cartridge temp that makes the difference. The same things that work to keep your water bottle from freezing overnight also work to keep your cartridge stove working well. Which is not to say I wouldn't prefer a liquid fuel stove at cold temps. I prefer a liquid fuel stove under most conditions. But when I really want to go fast and light, my Snow Peak system is the nazz. I don't consider it my "all conditions" set-up. But I bet there are those who do.
Wonder if there are - or will be - other systems that "accidentally" happen to look like, and work like, the JetBoil or ETA.... more or less interchangable components..?... Being copied is often a key factor in order to achieve "classic" status. Now, wasn't there a Swedish manufacturer whose stove designs were occasionally copied?
Gary, is it a "Kovea" knock off, or did Kovea buy these in bulk and re-badge them? What is a 'Classic Stove', is my 40 year old Primus Grasshopper gas stove classic? Yes, I think it is, they were produced by the thousands, still work well today, and are simple to use and maintain, Camping Gaz Bluet stove? Yes, for much the same reasons, and even the Trangia 25 and 27 range I believe come under the umbrella of 'Classic Stove' now. Without stoves like the Grasshopper and Bluet would we now have stoves like the Pocket Rocket or Jetboil? doubt it, without the Trangia would we have home made pop can stoves? doubt it. Stove collectors are spoiled for choice when it comes to picking a stove for a camp, but many backpackers want a stove that fits their style of camping and the food they cook and eat, they want just the one cooker. I don't think there are many members here who pound 20 miles a day and who can live on noodles and energy drinks etc, the bulk of us want to set up camp and cook home food, and that suits me fine. Good food with variety reflects my camping heritage, its what I'm used to and enjoy, but I must admit I also admire the guys and gals who are happy covering the distance on minimal kit and food.
I do not think we are on the same page here. The butane cartridge I am referring to is filled with pure butane, 71/2 inches tall and 21/4 inches thick. I have never seen it come filled with mixture of "improved" blend, as the current screw-in type gas cartridges. Maybe they are available in other parts of the world, but not here. I can still get a set of 4 for $3. As one uses this type of long, cylindrical cartridges, it gets rapidly cold, and butane gas slows its evaporation, and eventually does down to the simmer level output. The manufacturer, Kovea, suggests in the instruction leaflet to buy separate coil to conduct the heat from the burner down to the can, in order to boost the evaporation. Without this extra bit, it will be difficult to bring anything to a boil at temperatures under 60F. The leaflet even had a graph showing how the performance drops depending on the temp, and strongly denied that anything was wrong with their product. And I speak from my own experience that these butane cartridges do not boil water at temps under 65F--there is just not enough flame coming out of the burners. It does not lead me to hope at all that it would perform at near freezing point as you say. You must be refering to other butane-propane mixture, screw-in type cartridges.
Hey, Guys, I believe that, even with the propane/butane mix cartridges, their performance in cold weather leaves something to be desired. As I understand it, the propane tends to seperate, and burns off first, which leaves you with that same old, butane/only cartridge, the cold weather performance of which is poor, much of the time. Heating a stove cartridge, when you are freezing cold, hungry, and possible wet, is a pipe dream, Friends, and not something upon which you should try to rely!! Sure, if you're car camping, that's no problem. But, when you're in a tough situation, it will only add to your misery! Liquid fuel stoves for all cold-weather situations, in my book! That way, if things go South on you, you're still safe and sound, with a stove that will work as it should, with no shinanigans like having to warm a freezing cold cartridge! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
That's very true and you might include the Svea 123 & SIGG Tourist in there too. But try doing this with a Jetboil ... It's horses for courses really. I'm by no means a seasoned outdoors type and my stove needs are simple. I could very happily make do with just an Optimus 45 ..... and a Primus 210 .... and an Optimus 111 ...... Optimus 22 .... and a Svea 123 ... with SIGG Tourist ...... and a 96 .... and an Optimus #11 Explorer .... and a Trangia ...... ...... Svea 106 is nice too Enjoy the Flame
I've seen this before... i think it would be a good solo set... For simple cooking in reasonably fair weather. If you're going out in the cold you have to carry heavier stuff. I would stay away from any butane type mix. Liquid is the way to go. Most folks here tend to prefer a little flame control, which the goat doesn't really offer...Also the fuel for that setup is on the pricey side. Red lights start going off for me if alcohol is the CHEAPER of the fuels on a dual fuel stove. Those esbits are good, but just a little cheaper than the dilithium crystals on Star Trek. This is what i would suggest for fast and light in fair weather: stores under the gas
The titanium goat "Ti-Tri-Caldera" ( busy little marketing people... ) thingy is very cool and effecient looking....... For ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY FIVE DOLLARS it should be!!!!! Looks like tinsmith rape to me, but, as I may have said before; given the uncertainty of my legitimacy, I may as well be a "frugal" one too..........
I see what you're saying. I haven't seen a straight butane cartridge in years and slipped a gear. My mistake.
Well, I've just spent $194 on a Borde Bombe (evil bay 200198315943) and I'm trying to decide whether it's too dear to light up and I should just keep it polished and pristine.
Hey Doc, let me say again that for almost any camping/backpacking purpose I have, with the single exception of ultralight backpacking, I prefer a liquid fuel stove. But facts are facts. You are right about the separation of propane and butane, and what this would mean -- basically a butane cartridge. This is a description of how _not_ to use one, not what must happen or will happen. Propane/butane stoves will perform equally well as white gas stoves down to around freezing -- if both stoves are properly handled. So with an ambient temp above freezing -- and we can be plenty cold, hungry and wet at 45F -- neither stove clearly outperforms the other -- when properly handled (sorry to repeat myself, but it's a key point.) In below freezing weather, it doesn't take that much to keep a cartridge warm enough to be above freezing. Remember, it is cartridge temp,not ambient temp, that counts as far as stove performance goes. This is not a pipe dream. Like so much else, it is a simple skill that has to be learned, just like priming a Svea is a skill that must be learned if you are going to use that stove. Not hard to learn, but must be learned nonetheless. Carts have worked successfully on Himalayan expeditions, when used properly. That's pretty cold. What it takes is preparation and forethought. We wouldn't let our down bags get wet and then expect them to perform well either. We have learned how to manage this. And we can manage a cartridge stove as well. I wouldn't choose to, but it is done.
The butane/propane stoves performance will drop in cold, but I've found it OK with lanterns where you don't need really bright light. On my 1st Feb camp, the temp was below zero C and ice formed off the condensation on the gas canister, but the lamp worked, not 100%, but OK for what I needed. The Coleman white gas and Vapalux kerosene lanterns just worked 100%, they shook off the cold. I have tried the newer gas cans of the propane/butane/isobtane mix and they work very well. This was with an Omnifuel at about -2c. I inverted the gas can which is supposed to help (stood it upside down in effect) and I saw no drop in performance. The only drawback is cost, kerosene is so much cheaper as a fuel source PS ZDP-189 Light the Borde. Visitors to your home will notice a nice big shiney polished brass stove, they won't know what the Borde is so you may as well use it
