I believe one merely needs a "Dragon Tamer" to cut the noise (and probably burn more efficiently, too). 8) Note picture one and two from the CASG#3 in this post: https://classiccampstoves.com/posts/134228 Hikin' Jim was kind enough to let me have a loaner Dragonfly needing a small brazing repair. I hope to have it up and running later this week. Looks like a fun stove. Thanks Jim! Best, Gary
Tell us what you really think, Mark. I agree that the Whisperlite was no replacement for the much nicer Firefly. I see a role for the Whisperlite as an "entry level" white gas (petrol) stove, but they should not have done away with the FF. With regard to the Internationale, it's not quite what it's advertised, but still, I wonder if there's any benefit to owning the Internationale over it's poor cousin, the "plain Jane" Whisperlite. Here's my thought: the Internationale, although by no means a true multifuel stove, has some advantage inasmuch as one could burn other fuels albeit for short periods of time. If one were to go trekking for a week or two and having a stove were not mission critical, perhaps an Internationale would do. What do you think, is it fair to give the Internationale that much? HJ
Let me give this a shot, and Doc (and others) fill this out as needed. MSR Production Stoves of today (gassies excepted): 1. Whisperlite. A basic entry level white gas (petrol) stove. Relatively inexpensive. Decent for boiling water and melting snow. Can be made to simmer with difficulty. 2. Whisperlite Internationale. Basically just a Whisperlite with a bigger generator. May give one the ability to use other fuels for short periods of time. 3. Simmerlite. A higher end, ultralight white gas (petrol) stove. Period. Simmering has nothing to do with this stove. MSR set out to make a very light weight white gas (petrol) stove, and that is just what they did. Apparently marketing got a hold of things and did the stoving public yet another disservice much as they did in calling the Internationale a multi-fuel stove. 4. Dragonfly. Boils like a blast furnace, simmers like a dream, but with the extra valve is high maintenance. It's also a big, heavy stove more suited to larger groups. MSR refers to the D'fly as a "base camp" stove. 5. XGK. Burns any petroleum product known to man (well, not quite, but close). It has a simple design which makes the XGK a very reliable stove but unfortunately makes simmering rather difficult. Basically, if you just need a white gas (petrol) stove that's nothing fancy, then a Whisperlite will be fine. If you're looking to go light and willing to spend a bit more, then the Simmerlite is for you. If you want a stove upon which you can really cook (i.e. one that simmers well), particularly for groups, then pick the Dragonfly. If you're looking for a reliable multifuel stove, then the XGK is your best choice. You'll note in the preceding paragraph, that I wrote nothing about the Internationale; I really don't see much of a role for the Internationale which is why I addressed my question to Doc Mark three or four posts back. Perhaps there's some role for the Internationale for those who need a multifuel stove for short trips where the stove's failure isn't critical, but I'm really having to stretch to create a role for the Internationale. Far better had MSR retained the Firefly and never come up with the Internationale. The Firefly were it still in the MSR repertoire, would complement the Dragonfly nicely as a non multi-fuel simmering stove but for smaller groups. Really, MSR has a gaping hole in their current line of white gas stoves: they have no smaller stove that can simmer; they only have the big Dragonfly. I think that a lot of backpackers would a appreciate a smaller lighter stove that can simmer easily. Read the reviews at REI.com of the Whisperlite and Simmerlite stoves. There's complaint after complaint about the lack of simmering capability. You listening, MSR? Just my thoughts, HJ
"Dragon Tamer!" I like it. I call the BD cap + Dragonfly a "Dragon Dawg," but I like your name for the BD cap in that configuration. Speaking of Dragonflies, I hope that little Dragonfly I sent home with gives you a good test bed for whatever new BD products may be coming along. It also functions pretty well as a stove too although if you've already got an Omnifuel and a Nova, I don't think the D'Fly will all that different. HJ
I like the idea of the midi cap on the dragonfly except for one issue. You have to take the cap off to fold the stove up. The dragon fly is bulky but I wouldnt call it heavy. Most of the tramping I do is with groups so this works well. The other stove I sometimes use is the coleman 533 which makes the dragonfly a positive featherweight. I wonder how hard it would be to make a silent cap more like the enders 9061 in the German photo shoot posts
Yes, that is a bit of an issue. One would NOT want to lose one's BD cap. I unfortunately haven't figured out a good protocol for that one. HJ
Just a thought, perhaps you can silbraze a small loop at the bottom and put a chain to it hopefully it will not affect the airflow at the bottom and put a small chain on it. Ron
A couple of the good things with the dragonfly are its very fast prime and its fast setup and simplicity. Anything that makes life more complicated would be counter productive and the extra assembly time negates the speed of this stove. Having to wear ear plugs while useing this stove is a minor inconvenience. Running it at less than full power also cuts the noise dramaticaly
How about something like this? The "legs" are bent outward by the user so that they create positive tension on the sides of the burner bell. The cap is pushed into the burner bell where it held by friction. These are pictures of OmniDawg 4. But, the same style legs could be applied to a four-row cap like the standard midi. Just an idea. 'Course, a feller could always just wire the cap on like folks have been doing with 2-pint silents for decades. I like doing mine with stainless steel wire. Nothing at all wrong with noise. But I go to the wilderness to escape it. We all have our tastes and that's just fine, too. 8) Best, Gary
that looks like it should be fitted to a xgk so as to save my poor old pot stands from thermonuclear meltdown
That stove really puts out a lotta heat! I would not be surprised if there is a failure in the welds. Bill with that kind of heat you should pass the boil test in under 3mins no doubt.
Now, now, Gary, posting beautiful BD cap photos like that on a work night. How do expect any of us to sleep -- we'll all be dreaming of BD caps! I think what geeves is driving at is not how to emplace the BD cap so that it will work but rather how not to lose it. The BD cap has to be removed to fold up the stove for transport (take a look at the D'Fly that you brought home from CASG3, and I think you'll see what I mean). So, how to not lose the cap? Ron suggests a loop of some kind be affixed to the cap. I'm thinking that would impact the functioning of the cap. Another option would be to wire it in place and just live with not being able to fully collapse the stove for transport. The third would be to just be REALLY REALLY REALLY careful when putting away the stove so as not to lose one's BD cap. None of the above solutions is particularly satisfying. Perhaps on could remove the legs of the Dragonfly for storage instead of folding up the burner assembly which would allow one to wire the BD cap in place. I'll have to think some on this. Losing a BD cap is not an option! HJ
Gary, That cap looks brilliant! And the dragonfly would really benefit from it too as it is a LOUD stove! My omni cap has made it safely back from its trip to Dock Marks hobbit hole and I am soooo happy to see it again!
Sorry guys but I guess I got up on the right side of the bed this afternoon and after HJ re-quoted Bernies explanation spreading the legs outward creating a tension and pushing the cap in and held by friction am still laughing out really loud. OK so I took a cold shower before going to work did not help any. Just for laughs guys. Had some of you been present at CASG3 it would have been hilarious. Ron
You are the experts on this. How easy would it be to make a cap with tapered sides like the enders 9061 and would it work. This is why I had a play with a few ideas a few months ago but none worked well enough to be a solution.
Geeves, something similar to the enders caps would be the burner of a camping gaz bluet. I have tried it on my 8R but not enough pressure to get a blue flame. Might try it on my 96 to see if I get better results. Just experimentation.
Here's a BD mini cap on my DragonFly at CASG3 (photo courtesy of the man himself, BernieDawg): The Dragonfly is quite well behaved with the BD cap in place. And the Dragonfly's owner? He's all smiles. HJ
Useing a burner similar to the bluet I thought I was onto something for 5 minuites. Just about as quiet as an electric stove and as much heat as the roarer. But then it started spitting burning fuel all over my garage. I havent tried playing with it since. I did try a bluet burner as well but it was a total fail. The only difference in the 2 burners was the shape of the base. I did think about porting some of the flame down to heat the burner but doing so would most likely wreck the burner if it doesnt work
I would think that the initial priming gave you a good flame but once the burner cools down, vaporization disappears and you have liquid fuel coming out. That's where brass is efficient in retaining and transferring heat to the burner base to ensure continual vaporization. Ron
