Technically, you would use an MSR bottle with any X-GK because by the time they were making the X-GK the period correct bottle would be an MSR bottle. Somewhere in my 'Model 9 to X-GK' thread the instructions for the G/GK stoves show the MSR fuel bottle as the bottle to use. Model 9 to X-GK Ken
Yes, looking over the instruction sheet there is that boilerplate front and center, as well as embossed on the pump itself "Warning - use only MSR fuel bottles MFG. by MSR" (to remove any doubt I guess.) It does have that liability "odor" to it for sure. I'd forgotten about the voluminous instructions, and all the fiddly bits included, what with the maintenance kits, different caps, plastic this and plastic that, check balls and o-rings & proprietary gizmos. And then the periodic recalls of the latest and greatest iteration. Yeesh. Anybody wanna buy it?
Morning, All, I must admit that I'm a bit perplexed that this thread continues...... Though I have never done it, myself, I have bought used Sigg bottles that were deformed, and IMHO, dangerous to use! Why, must I ask, would anyone NOT want to buy a brand new MSR bottle, and simply use what is best, safety-wise, for using their MSR stoves?!!?!! And, @Primus 96 , YES, your red and grey pump, to put it bluntly, is the absolute WORST pump that was ever designed to be used by MSR!! DO NOT USE IT, PERIOD!! I thought that I'd made that crystal clear in all the warnings I've penned about that crappy pump. Get a new MSR pump, and get an MSR fuel bottle, and call it good, my friend, and stop hedging your bets by trying to use things that have long ago proved to be unsafe!! In case this helps, here are some photos of the two worst pumps that MSR (actually REI, as they were the ones responsible for these crappy design changes): Note the melted down red and grey pump on the left. This pump, though properly maintained, simply "let go" whilst I was using it, one day, and the result was a huge fireball!! Luckily, I had a large bucket nearby, and after turning it upside down over the flaming fuel bottle, the fire was put out!! Had this happened in the bush, I shiver to consider what may have taken place!! A common failing of this pump, and the red and blue one, too: Here's one that is not quite broken, but soon will become so. Note the tiny crack in the bottom of the U-shaped area of the locking tab, that is already beginning to spread: And here's a shot of both the red and grey, and red and blue pumps, both sharing the same crappy design and materials: MSR/REI should have recalled both pumps, just like the REAL MSR did with some of their very first pumps! But, REI had their caps set for profits, and NOT safety, hence the two horrid pumps shown above. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, DO NOT USE YOUR PUMP!! TOSS IT IN THE BIN, AND BUY A NEW MSR PUMP!! Also, do NOT use a Sigg bottle, either, or any other brand, except MSR. Buy a new MSR bottle, and pump, and use your stove in the safest way possible!!! I cannot stress this enough!!! Your choice, of course....... but........ Still Scratching His Head, as to Why This Thread Continues, Doc
@Fettler , Sounds like you're not an MSR fan. Hey, I love my Coleman stoves, and also hundreds of other stoves, made by myriad manufacturers. But, even with it's "Rube Goldberg affair", the hard fact is that MSR stoves, and especially the X-GK family, do work, and they work wonderfully!! I've only found ONE MSR model that did not work as advertised, and that was the first version of the Whisperlite Internationale. But, MSR updated that stove to the second version, and got it right with that one. But, hey, each to his/her own. In all my many years of being a Stovie, I've heard disparaging remarks about just about every brand of stove, from those who either did not like them, or simply did not understand how to use them. So, as long as it's all in good (safe!) fun, it's great to have favorites, and also "less than favorites", too! What is the vintage of your X-GK? What year did you buy it? Hummmm.....! (Yeah, like I NEED another X-GK to go along with all the other ones I already have!) By the way, welcome to CCS. Where in "Ioway" to you live? We pass through that State every year on our way to one of our jobs. We've met up with Stovies from CCS in quite a few different States, on our work travels. Maybe we could touch base one of these days. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc (who, as you probably have gathered, LOVES his X-GK stove family, and quite a few other MSR stoves, too!!)
Although I see no cracks in the pump it will never be tried. Doc Mark's impassioned warning shout was more than enough of a clue. It is my first MSR stove and I am damn glad I decided to ask. It goes without saying that a proper MSR fuel bottle is also on order. I have done the right thing in buying a new pump & don't want the 'O' rings to wear prematurely for lack of an appropriate lubricant. Whether it be Petroleum Jelly (Vaseline), Silicone based grease or something else.
It's a 1992 vintage, Doc, if I'm reading the date code correctly. I never used it very often. When I was deployed overseas I had all the fuel I could want in the form of daily aircraft fuel samples, JP8, a form of highly refined and polished kerosene with anti-icing additives. It worked OK with the "K" jet as I recall, not surprisingly. I just strive for simplicity, and what I would term elegance, and the MSR had too many recalls to inspire confidence. It's just too fiddly. They had problems with their water filters as I recall too, in the backcountry the simpler the better and translates to reliable. I had a Whisperlight for a while, that seems to be a pretty good setup, if really counting the grams.
Simmerlite is a lighter Whisperlite. I used one on a long trip in Grand Canyon. That and a Caldera Cone stove setup. White gas, alcohol, and wood.
@Primus 96 , Good Sir, I appreciate your comments, and, as I wrote in our private conversation, I thank you for understanding my rather strident tone in the above post of mine. I just worry about the way some new folks seem to embrace a rather cavalier attitude towards using volatile fuels, and wanted to make sure you understood just how dangerous this came be. Good on you, Sir, for having taken steps to render your stove safe, and reliable. Believe me, all it takes is one meltdown, and you would immediately wish you had done as you have already done!! Excellent work, and many thanks for having accepted my advice!! @Fettler , I understand your points, completely, and agree that MSR stoves, and possibly other products of theirs, is just not your cup of tea. NO worries there, for sure. There is something out there for each and every Stovie, and that's part of the fun of this crazy hobby we all share!! If your stove is from 1992, then it's what I would consider "newer", rather than early. Your having successfully used JP8 in it, without major problems, is one of the major reasons why I love that model of MSR Stove. As an aside, though my wife and I have done over 1,250 miles of the PCT, and done myriad other backpacking trips, including some up in Alaska, we are not "gram counters", or "ounce counters", per se. We home dehydrate our backpacking foods, for the most part, and want a stove that will allow us to actually cook, and not just boil water. It might surprise you to learn that the X-GK can cook food very nicely, if proper techniques, and/or a good simmering plate is used. But, there are other MSR stoves that do that easier, i.e. the Whisperlite Universal, for instance. In any case, as I wrote earlier, each to his/her own, right?! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
What about the green bottles supplied with the nova? They seem solid and the duasle pump will screw into them although the lip on the seal is pushed out a fair bit. Also we have to remember that the old original sigg bottles were quite different to todays which are barely safe with drinking water. I have a recent 1l siigg bottle and it weighs less than the 500ml anodised sigg from yesteryear. Maybe the start of msr branded bottles coincided with a desiscion by sigg to make fuel bottles branded to stove companies (Im sure Ive seen an msr bottle with sigg on the bottom) and own branded water bottles. If so though why didnt they change the filler size on the water bottles to prevent accidents?
Doc, I'm not arguing that this is primarily a matter of taste (although it would be at least a factor with me regardless) it's simply that the units are obviously in several instances inherently unsafe. I agree it's easy to slip over the line into silliness on this stuff, but they just seem a bit over engineered, with too many parts, plastic parts especially, and thus many potential failure points. The several safety recalls over the years underscores this. I freely admit a certain level of cantankerousness and a bit of sentimentality about my brass stoves or green suitcases. But the truth is they work so damn reliably and simply!
Hi, Fettler, No worries. We're just having a discussion. As to the recalls, I can only remember one MSR stove that was involved with one, and that was the original FireFly. I, for one, appreciate recalls, if something is deemed unsafe. The first pumps had recalls, as the plastic involved in their manufacture was not sturdy enough, and quickly deformed, and/or cracked, hence the recalls. But, I know of not a single recall for stoves or stove related MSR devices, other than those. For my part, I do not consider MSR stoves unsafe, even in the least, if used properly. I've far too many years of using them to not trust them. As for brass stoves, and Coleman stoves, I, too, love those as well! My Sievert SVEA 123 V1 is my most favorite of that tribe, though all of them are good, dependable stoves, IF maintained properly. Guess you could say the same about any stove, really. It's going to be hard to beat my Coleman #1 suitcase stove for ease of maintenance, and reliable performance, though. Once fettled, it has worked a treat ever since! Love that stove, and we're used it quite often, over the years. By the way, "cantankerousness", and "sentimentality" are considered part and parcel of being a card-carrying Stovie, here at CCS!! We almost ALL possess those same traits, and that's why we're all here!! Fun stuff, no matter how you slice it. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
I'm not so sure about that. I got my first X-GK sometime in the mid-1980s. It was given to me as a gift by my wife, and she gave me two Sigg fuel bottles with it. (I still have them.) She would have asked at the store what the proper bottle was. Also, I recall I already had that stove when MSR started selling their own bottles. Needless to say, I used that stove many times with Sigg bottles, and never had a problem. BUT since I found out the MSR bottles are stronger regarding the threads, I've always used an MSR bottle. Ditto with the newer pumps. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't use the safest options available. I think it's pretty clear that MSR designed their remote tank stoves for the Sigg bottle (which is why the diameter and threads are the same). When the warning stickers came out, followed by the introduction of the MSR bottle, I thought the decision was probably driven by Sigg, who would not want to take on potential liability from a product not of their making. I don't believe Sigg thought their bottles would fail under pressure -- what would they expect someone to use with their Firejet stove? ....Arch
I am going by the instructions included in the G/GK stoves. The MSR bottle is referenced in the G/GK instructions. Is it not safe to assume that the X-GK came after the G/GK series?
I for one have never owned a MSR, the only stoves I have of the bottle and pump design are Sigg and Optimus, but if I found one at a good price I would not hesitate. I really admire the retro compatibility of their design, being able to update your existing equipment. Fortunately I have not had any issues with my FireJet pump. Ivan
Ya know, you are playing with fire, could burn yourselves, might want to just leave stoves and lanterns as shelf queens. Duane
Maybe we should all put warning labels on our gear "Warning: Fire may be hot and lead to burns with direct contact, lack of eye brows have resulted " ( in deference to the other thread )
I've shortened my beard when I wore it longer, eyebrows and hair over my forehead gets touched up now and then. Duane
Duane, Arch, All, Duane, I THANK YOU for bumping the old thread. Re your: " I'm now of the opinion that a pump isn't capable of over pressurizing a bottle to the point of pooching out the bottom..." There is a longer complicated answer but the easy comment is MSR stated a concern for "... concave bottom Taiwan fuel bottles can not take the 65 psi maximum pressure of the MSR pump." <-- that had to be a known problem (but you maybe had SIGG fuel bottles in mind? Not concern I know of). --------------- BUT there were other fuel bottles in-use, notably SIGG. As for bulged bottoms I think your scenario HAS HAPPENED, a SIGG bottle pumped-up then exposed to SUN (hot trunk etc.) which would bulge the bottom. I too see that as more likely culprit (vs over pumping). BTW > From day1 MSR instructs to release pressure when stove is not in use. > Also probable, the many users that never had a problem w/SIGG bottles... were stovies that followed instructions, what a concept! … and just a thought, maybe just maybe. ---------------- As for using non MSR fuel bottles: By '89 MSR did provide "WARNING: USE ONLY MSR FUEL BOTTLES WITH YOUR MSR STOVE" As for pre-89 stoves/fuel bottles... not as easy to comment on. I did think rik's retro-fitting a duraseal with O-rings (allows new pump on old SIGGs & old stoves) was interesting. ----------------- Arch ! hello @ArchMc re your: I'm not so sure about that. In light of, reply / image above that can give impression: in '81 MSR instructs "use MSR bottle only". BTW, instructions do not say that, just look. That said, as mentioned above, by '89 MSR did provide "WARNING: USE ONLY MSR FUEL BOTTLES WITH YOUR MSR STOVE". I confess I'm not entirely clear GK to X-GK or Notes & Warning 1981 - 88. [ my 2016 comment: November? 1981 Model X-GK begins (or GK renamed to X-GK), per *source mid 1981 (also *G & GK end) "mid 1981" is vague and, as noted above, some conflicts do remain. ] My impression is you're reminding that SIGG bottles were legit option mid 80s after MSR bottles were available. That very well may hold up imo, but again I'm not clear on that time frame. 1980 G, G/K says use only SIGG fuel bottle. source --------------------------------------- I share another MSR note accommodating "other" fuel bottles, after MSR bottles were available. (in line with your comment) ALSO from a : MSR STOVE SYSTEM INSTRUCTION MANUAL "Note: the MSR fuel bottle is specifically designed to contain the MSR pump and to withstand intentional pressurization from the pump. Exercise care in the selection and use of other manufacturer's bottles; some have proven faulty. " MSR source credit Smiles69 Note too, the round sticker that apparently came with the instructions in link. I welcome link, 1980s source, MSR warning the use of SIGG fuel bottles or thread concerns on 1980s (and earlier) SIGG fuel bottles. I don't get that Sigg was ever implicated in the "faulty" fuel bottles. I welcome update/correction. -------------------------------------- @anfeng is enthusiastic fellow stovie , He posted an '86 X-GK . If at some point anfeng might post his '86 X-GK instructions that would be worth a look at. It might inform this topic (& might not). He noted it came with MSR round sticker for bottom of fuel bottle. Like Arch shared, mid 80s a SIGG fuel bottle is with anfeng's example as well (fuel bottle purchased separately, as always). thx
MSR Fuel Bottle mentioned on same page as a reference to the GK stove. I am sure the SIGG bottle was still available for sale at the same time. It was and still is a viable fuel container. Ken
