MSR Whisperlite Universal -- Pump Compatibility Problems

Yep. That's about the size of it. Kind of a shame though to have such a basic flaw in such a fine stove. Like I say, I've written to MSR to alert them to the fact. A simple tweak now, and we'll never hear about this problem again.

I think MSR would be remiss NOT to fix the problem. People are going to force their older pumps to work. There will be cracks; there will be leaks; there will be accidents. And what does NOT fixing the issue gain MSR? Nothing. It's got to be an oversight.

That's what I figured. All a pump does is pressurize the tank and regulate the flow (via the valve). As long as the gaskets and such can stand up to fuel and the connectors all fit and are well made, then one means of pressurization is little different from another. I was pretty confident that an Omnifuel pump would work. Of course, I was more confident after the test.

OK, whoa. Be careful here. On pumps that mix air with the fuel, like the Coleman Apex or the Soto Muka, there is a difference. Pumps that are co-mingling air with fuel are doing something that ordinary pumps are not. You cannot readily substitute a regular pump for one that is aerating the fuel.

I gotta say it was pretty sweet operating an MSR stove with my high-precision Omnifuel pump. A long held dream come true.

HJ

 

I don't recall the price point on this thing if it was stated, but yeah, not much new going on there in my book. A snap ring, a bent generator, different legs, and an extra gas tip. Basically looks like it's doing what the others should have done in the first place.

Mike

 

I believe the posited price is $140.00 USD.

HJ

 

Their reason for the plastic pumps is it will fail (melt) before a much bigger accident can happen. Kinda like a shear bolt on equipment so something more expensive doesn't break.

Duane

 

Well, maybe I have a different perspective. First, I've been using Whisperlites since 1987. I'm very pleased to see all of the refinements they've made. This is a good stove, guys.

I think what the refinements to the stove say about MSR is even more important. Something really good has been happening at MSR these last few years. They introduced the Reactor which is sort of a "big splash" kind of product, but perhaps more important are the little things. After years of relying on the same problematic fuel pump, they finally released a new fuel pump that's actually a step up. Now, they're releasing multiple stoves that correct some of the problems and "awkward spots", some of which date back nearly thirty years. To me that's a good sign when a company is making little tweaks and smoothing out the rough spots. It means that they're trying rather than resting complacently on their laurels. How many changes came out of MSR from 2000 - 2005? I can't think of a single one*. But in the half decade or so thereafter, we have quite a number of changes, some of them quite significant. I suspect the stove we all love to hate, the Jetboil, shook things up. If so, thank you, Jetboil, and I welcome the changes at MSR. Keep up the good work, MSR.

HJ

*Maybe the XGK EX? When did that come out? Pre-JetBoil or post JetBoil?

 

Hi Jim, not dissing the legs just the lack of detailing on them. I don't want them painted pink or anything like that but a cutout that say MSR or "theyellowdog" would be nice.

Dan

A big improvement MSR made on the dragonfly in the last ... years was moving the rod that supports the burner so it now goes through the bell. The old ones could break off. Not sure if that was in the 2000-2005 time frame? What about the xgk with a flexi hose?

 

On the pump connection, time will tell. It IS a prototype. But that aluminum extrusion doesn't look like an accident to me. I wouldn't be surprised to see a more extensive redesign "improvement" to make it MORE difficult to be backward compatible. But I'm a pessimist with regard to corporations doing what's right.

On the fuel air mixing pumps: You say you cannot use them on a stove designed for a liquid only pump. Have you tried? Why wouldn't it work?

I don't know about the MUKA other than Doc Marks comments and videos, but if you listen to the Coleman pumps, they tick away like a clock when the stove is running. I can just see the little check valve balls seating and unseating now. Didn't Coleman "steal" MSR's basic pump design in the first place? Or did they just borrow it?

Plastic is fine for most of the pump assembly(I don't buy that safety line of bs btw but that horse is long dead) The pump ROD and stress points like threads are my concern. I'm sure an engineer can tell us all the the plastic is stronger and better. And in a lab, it may be. But it won't pass the GI test.

That said, I hope the MSR folks are monitoring. At $140 the pump should be rock solid. And if it's that much better with another brand of pump do we really need to say more? See the original Optimus Nova pump for what I think is the best pump available and go from there. Good to see improvements to the other parts though.

Mike

 

Actually, you'd probably be fine in that case. It's the other way around (using a liquid only pump on a stove designed for an air-fuel mix) that I don't think would work.

It's late, so more later.

HJ

 

I have retrofitted a Nova pump to a Coleman Apex, Apollo, Primus Gravity MF(what a piece of crap that one is!!!) You just have to treat them like a kero burner and preheat them. After that, they run fine. Well, the Gravity doesn't run fine with it's own or any other pump for that matter. I am interested in the the opposite though. I think I'll try an Apex pump on a Nova and see what happens.

You make an excellent point about MSR. Forward steps are much better than stagnation or backsliding. And there HAVE been some pretty revolutionary designs since the Jetboil. The Reactor is amazing as is the Primus Eta system. The CFV venture(can't win em all) will hopefully come to market in the near future, but I'm not holding my breath on that one. BTW have you ever fired that one up? HA! Fat chance, right?


Mike

 

The MSR reps at OSG fired up their CFV.

Duane

 

Do digress, Duane. Any photos? or was it classified.

 

Yeah, you loose the Apex's ability to fire up without priming if you remove the aeration. Good to know they work thereafter.

I don't think it will be a problem.

HJ

 

Heya Toon
Not sure if CFV was classified or not. I'm checking with Drew and Steve to see if the photos and video can be released. I think Ron may have a CFV video in the works, too. FWIW, the stove was not exactly what I would call spectacular when burning. Interesting, yes. I'd mark it "needs more work".
Cheers,
Gary

 

As Gary said, I need to have Steve and Drew of MSR review the video before it can be shown to the general public.

I agree with Gary - marked "needs improvement" Interesting though.

Am also preparing unedited copies of the video to those who have attended to be mailed to them. Please PM me your addresses except for BernieDawg, Doc Mark, and Fuelish. Please be patient.

Ron

 

I thought the two stoves they showed had too many parts. Looked like trouble in the field if it got knocked around some.
Duane

 

Well it's good that everyone at the stove gathering was able to get their security clearances in time to watch them fire up a stove.

Ok Ron, you get with MSR and I'll get with the Pentagon and make sure the stove videos don't breach national security. I know 9/11 was just a couple days ago, but jeez! HA!

Mike

 

It's just a matter of being polite, Mike. That's all. They were nice enough to come and share and we hope they will again, so I think we'd just like to afford them the option so no one at MSR gets in trouble with corporate biggies higher on the food chain.

Simple really - no conspiracy or anything.
Cheers,
Gary

 

I get it, Gary. They pass out some trinkets and bought you guys off. I hope you complimented them on whatever attire they were in. Just kidding.

Seriously, I'm really interested in that project though. It's definitely been one of, if not the single, most anticipated projects in the stove world for a long time. And finding any reliable updated information on it has been more than difficult. From considerable experience in the Army development/procurement process, my best guess has been for some time, that they put a LOT of money into development only to find that it wasn't meeting spec. That there are other stoves out there that burn multiple fuels and cost much less, someone with common sense and the checkbook asked the tough question that no one had a good answer for: What are we gaining for this investment?

Fill us in if/when you can.

Mike

 

Actually, the "military" bought a different model of MSR stove than the one they were working on specifically for the "military". Not the one HJ has.

Duane