MSR XGK with Yellow Pump

Sam, make sure you put it in a ziplok bag and in your safety deposit box

Ron

 

The cable is very easy to put back in. The cable is quite rigid and will push all the way back in with ease, depending on how clean or dirty the cable and tube are. I've been adding a drop of oil to the end of the cable to make it really slippery to allow easy insertion back into the fuel tube. The cable extends to just underneath the burner jet body but does not go up into the jet.

With this XGK, I can see the end of the cable if I remove the jet and look down into the body.

sam

 

I ran down to Ace Hardware and bought a length of 1/4" O.D. and 1/8" I.D. lawn mower fuel hose. Now that won't have any problems inside of the fuel bottle. Perfect material for this job and it cost all of $0.29. What a bargain!

I came up with a way to put holes in the tube. I used my drill bit that I'd used before on my silent burner caps. The hole is the same dimension (don't ask me what that is). If you press the tube flat and apply as little pressure as possible, the bit will carve out the holes in the tube through both sides. If you press too hard, the bit will go through without cutting the hole. It's important to carve the hole out to make this work properly.

As you can see in the picture, the studs fit properly in the tube. I measured where they should go by looking at another yellow pump I have and drilled accordingly..

Now I have two yellow pumps with matching yellow air tubes!!!


Here's are some pictures...





I went ahead and replaced the tube on my other pump, which you will notice has a different design than the one that goes with this stove. It's got brass cotter pins that hold the pump parts together, but has the same effective strength and efficiency...




sam

 

bravo Sam, I guess that is an innovative approach in replacing the tube

You dah mannn!

Ron

 

What does the cable do?

 

The exact function of the cable, I don't know but, I can make some guesses.

First, it goes though the length of vaporizing tube so it aids in being able to clean out most of the carbon build-up in the tube. You can pull it out of the tube and clean it off and then spray solvents into the tube and get it mostly clean, except for maybe the most stubborn deposits.

Second, it takes up space in the tube so that there is less fuel to vaporize.

Third, now I'm really reaching. It helps with the vaporization process by retaining some of the heat that comes from the burner and since it is make of multiple strands of steel wire, it provides a lot of surface area to perform vaporization.

That would be my guess and only my guess.

sam

 

Sam, The 3rd one sounds like a logical purpose for the cable. But then again am fairly new with MSR stoves to make an educated opinion. So now your collection grows and expands to MSR's. Interested in the firefly on Ebay Let's see who pops a topic showing a FF in the next 2weeks. No, not bidding, too top heavy IMHO.

Ron

 

Right now with everyone talking about FireFly stoves, you're not going to touch the one on the bay for less than a hundred if not higher. Not going there.

I am watching it, though, to see where it goes.

I'm very happy with the MSRs I have at this point in time. I'm hoping for the miracle found-it-at-a-garage-sale-or-antique-store-for-cheap stove buy that includes my list of needed stoves like the FireFly and:

Radius 43B
Primus 41
Coleman 237 lantern
Coleman #4 stove or lower number,
Borde Bomb
MSR #9 or earlier
Khotal Royal Blue
SVEA 1
Primus 70
Primus or Optimus 210 Nickel
Optimus #9
Coleman 520 Ernie Pyle
and
finally,
I'm afraid to say it, but let the flamers flame their flames, the hated British Military No. 2...

Just to name a few...

sam

 

Sam, you have a long list there. That will keep you busy searching for at least 2 more years. Then you will be acquiring those cheap antique finds and flea market bargains you find too hard to resist on the side.

 

Thanks for the cable explanation. It makes sense as all 3 of my colemans have generators and cables but the dragonfly has neither.
In the one of colemans case though it also controls the jet

 

Oh, I don't know that everyone wants a Firefly. It's not old enough to really fit in with the true brass classics. It's an interesting stove, and I'm glad I've got one, but it's not quite the collectors item that some of the classy brassy stoves are.

Good luck on finding something earlier than the Model 9 from MSR. Even though it has the number "9," the Model 9 was the first production stove from MSR. If you can find something earlier than a Model 9, then you've got one of Mr. Penberthy's prototypes -- and boy would I like to see one of those!!

The cable in most MSR stoves is primarily for cleaning. Mr. Penberthy wanted his stoves to be fully field maintainable, having a scouring cable that stays with the stove reflects that design philosophy. It may aid in vaporization, but I think that is about 0.01% of it's function.

The Dragonfly is a departure from the standard MSR approach. Instead of a scouring cable, there's a an in-line filter in the fuel line. I suppose the idea is that a cable is unnecessary if you catch the crud before it can get into the fuel line. The Firefly also is a sans-cable stove. It may be that the scouring cable is incompatible with the second fuel valve.

HJ

 

MSR's dating numbers are a bit arcane and are inconsistent as best as i can determine. I think the date might actually be August 1983. I say this since the stove is a relatively early XGK model and because it came with a yellow pump. The yellow pump had been replaced by the gray pump by 1988 to the best of my knowledge. Doc, care to add your $0.02 worth on this subject?

HJ

 

Ya I think your right there Jim!
Why could they all not just used what Coleman used? when it came to dating stoves

Jeff

 

This is interesting. Is there any more history other than what is Stove Reference Library? Penberthy sounds like an interesting fellow and to start with No. 9 as the first product version and be from Seattle where software entrepreneurs over there started at 1.0 or use the year for the versioning of their products, i.e., Windoze 1.0 or Winblows 95. I guess I would have figured version 1 through 8 the alpha or beta versions of the product and would have numbered them 0.1, 0.2 to 0.8, skip 0.9 and go to 1.0, but 9 was probably a marketing ploy to make people think the stove had a long ancestry of other stoves in the market, IMHO.

Just some thoughts I've had on the thought provoking comments. Appreciate the comments on the date and cable and other things guys!

Maybe an MSR No. 8 is the rarest stove in the world!

sam

 

Larry Penberthy was not a man of hype. He was a very pragmatic engineer who loved to climb and found grave deficiencies in the equipment of the day. I don't know but I imagine that No. 9 is when he felt that he had finally got it right to the degree that he was willing to release it to the public. He was heavily involved in the Seattle based climbing group, The Mountaineers. He was developing his stoves to help himself and his climbing partners. His and his rope-mate's lives depended on his stoves and other gear. He took his work very very personally. I'd bet my bottom dollar on a 0% hype rate. These were stoves he used himself, not something to just make a buck. All that changed of course when the company was sold to REI, and the difference between the yellow pumps and the pumps that came thereafter loudly attests to that fact.

Penberthy ran for Senate a couple of times and I think either governor or lt. governor. Developed lead impregnated glass for handling radiation. Developed a process to effectively neutralize radioactive waste by combining it with glass (until the EPA shut him down). An absolutely fascinating man.

HJ

 

Howdy, Guys,

I do not really know, exactly, when the yellow pump was replaced by the grey and black one. I note that in a 1981 edition of Backpacker Magazine, which featured a nice bit on stove specs, MSR was still entrenched with the old yellow pump. Colin Fletcher's 3rd Edition of his fantastic book, "The Complete Walker (III)", was published in 1984, and in his glowing review of the then current version of the X-GK, he mentioned that the yellow pump had had it's metal fuel pick-up tube (inside the fuel bottle) replaced by a flexible plastic version, which he liked better.

So, MSR was still using the yellow pump in 1984. But, just three years later, in 1987, I bought my own first MSR X-GK stove, brand new, and it had the black and grey pump. Not being satisfied with the fact that my X-GK would not boil a quart of water in 3 minutes, as advertised, I returned it and was sent another one. This one, too, would not live up to the stove's original specs, which I now know was because MSR had raised the pot supports due to worries about being sued for too much carbon monoxide poisoning, after the landmark Backpacker Magazine book came out, with it's deep stove testing.

So, what do we know from all this? Well, that sometime in between 1984, and 1987, MSR developed the black and grey pump, and replaced the yellow pump that many of us like today. I used to think that was a good thing, UNTIL I broke two of the grey and black pumps, one after the other!! Until that happened, I had considered that pump to be a very good one. Now, I think that the yellow pumps are better, IF you can find a good one that has not had it's body cracked by an over-zealous owner cranking the regulating knob too tightly!! The newest pumps are much stronger than any other the others, but, it, too, has it's warts. But, I do not think that this current pump will cause too much worry with early breakage, as have many of the other ones. Those are my thoughts on all this, and much of it is pure conjecture on my part, after reading much, and after buying my own first X-GK. For what it's worth.... Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

P.S. Of all the pumps, other than the yellow bodied ones, and the newest ones, I must admit that the black and grey pumps are the best. Both the yellow ones and the current ones beat it. But, IMHO, NONE of the other MSR pumps are worth much, other than the yellow ones, the black and grey ones, and the newest ones. Just my opinion, mind you...

 

I think Larry Penberthy watched the movie "9" and so named his first stove just that. Or he may have made prototypes and the 9th one was the successful commercially viable stove that would be least problematic.

Ron

 

Doc,

I have one of them black and grey pumps on my Whisperlite International. So, would this possibly be the worst combination of stove and pump that MSR released to the public?

That black & grey pump sure looks flimsy with all that plastic. It's thinner around the pump rod and pump tube.

Well, here's a couple of pictures to have a comparison view:



You can see that the yellow pump is longer and thicker around the top of the pump. As for weight, it is only slightly heavier, about 0.5 ounces. I thought it would be a lot heavier with the size.

There are a couple of advantages that the grey pump has over the yellow:
1. easier access to NRV fixes, instead of the plastic hose holding everything in.
2. Fuel filter on the pickup tube.



Here they are opened up. The yellow pump rod is definitely longer which would allow more air to be pumped in than the grey and black pump.


sam

 

Thank you Sam for the pictures of the two pumps. Often wondered about these. Interesting.
Looks like the classic one step forward two steps back. Ah the 80's

Cheers,
Jeff

 

Sam, has the black and gray pump given you any trouble yet? Otherwise you may still be able to trade it in IIRC for the newer on for lesser cost. So far the pump that came with my used DF red/blue-green seems to work fine well not that its been used extensively really so for now its a good user for me

Ron