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MSR XGK with Yellow Pump

Discussion in 'MSR - Mountain Safety Research' started by idahostoveguy, Feb 25, 2010.

  1. idahostoveguy

    idahostoveguy Subscriber

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    Hey Jeff, I had wondered myself until I got the yellow pump. It is definitely constructed better just from the looks and the feel of it. The material feels strong and heavier where the black and gray pump feels lighter and brittle.

    Ron, the black and gray hasn't given me any trouble --- yet. It seems ok, but you never know. I'll be careful with it in the mean time before I do any kind of replacement, but then, it might just be out of the warranty period, knowing my luck. :roll:

    sam
     
  2. RonPH

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    Sam da man, you should be fine with it then. Read through the recent thread on MSR exchange policy or just try contacting them as the staff at MSR seems to be supherb at pleasing MSR customers. Never hurts to try.

    Ron
     
  3. hikin_jim United States

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    The yellow pump is definitely the beefiest pump I've seen. The gray pumps aren't as nice, but it's not the kiss of death or something. The bright blue-green (aquamarine?) & red pumps have the worst reputation, but I've got one that's still working. The red and gray pumps that came after the bright blue & red pumps are semi-OK, but not up to the standards of the yellow pumps. The new "seahorse" pumps are pretty solid -- they finally fixed the prone-to-break pump tabs issue (by a full redesign) that plagued all pumps after the yellow one. I'd comment on the original white MSR pumps except that I've never actually seen one of them.

    The yellow pumps have their issue too, some of which are just because of their now advanced age. The last yellow pumps were produced somewhere in the mid 80's -- a quarter of a century ago. The yelow pump's tabs while better than the next 3 generations of pumps that came thereafter can break. The air supply tube frequently can break off at the base of the pump. As Doc has pointed out, the pump can be cracked if the valve knob is closed too tightly.

    On the newest pumps, the redesign has all but eliminated the possibility of the pump tabs breaking. I have read reports (here on this site) of leakage around the valve knob, and I have experienced one such incident myself. It does not appear to be possible to repair such leakage based on what I know at this juncture.

    Speaking strictly for myself, I'll probably hang on to at least a few of my old MSR pumps just so that I have examples of each type of pump and so that I don't put all my pump eggs into one new pump basket.

    The other downside to the new pump is that they've eliminated the leather pump cup and gone to a synthetic rubber cup. I've read reports of the pump cup siezing in hot weather. I suppose one could replace the pump cup easily enough if it were really a problem.

    One other thing that has been reported is that the newest pumps, the "sea horse" pump, does not simmer as well as the older pumps. I was actually playing with a whisperlite at the gear swap I went to tonight (I sold 2 stoves), and I was able to get it to simmer reasonably well using the "-1" generation (in other words the next to most current) of the MSR pumps. I haven't yet been able to do that with the "0" generation (most current) of the pumps.

    HJ

    P.S. The pumps play out like this:
    1. Original white pump with square knob
    2. Yellow pump. Several variations on air supply tube including black, yellow, and translucent. I've read that some early versions had a metal air supply tube.
    3. Gray & black pump. Had a very high compression ratio.
    4. Bright blue-green (aquamarine?) and red pump. Crappiest MSR pump ever, sad to say. Much lower compression ratio.
    5. Red & gray pump. Several variations including different pump shaft bushings and silver vs. brass colored knobs.
    6. "Seahorse" pump. Total redesign of pump tabs. Much improved pump but with synthetic rubber pump cup.
     
  4. Chuck32

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    Hello all,
    I have been reading thru the MSR Forum and have a question; 1st I have an old MSR 9 that I bought new around 1974. It has a yellow pump with the metal tube but the plastic tube has rotted away. Do any of you know where I can locate the correct size tube to replace it with? So far I have come up blank. Also there appears to be two rivets and a centered brass tube (that the plastic tube slides over) are the rivets used ONLY to retain the plastic tube? I don't want to go ripping and tearing on my old stove without more info. FYI, on my pump the metal tube is DOWN during normal operation and I think it is used for fuel pickup.
     
  5. RonPH

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    Hi Chuck 32 (Welcome), I got my tube from OSH its one of those used for high pressure liquids for around $1.++ per foot. That is is not a rivet but a retaining pin. Remove it gently as the spring and plastic disk (serves as an NRV-non return valve) might just jump off. Bring your pump to the store to see the correct size. If I can recall its 1/4 of an inch white-ish tube (not the clear tube). Or....someone might just volunteer to fix it for you.

    Good luck

    Ron
     
  6. hikin_jim United States

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    Chuck,

    First, don't pull those little brass pins out haphazardly. There are spring loaded parts that are held in by those pins, and they'll come shooting out if you pull the pins. Lose those parts, and you lose the pump.

    Second, there is no imperative for replacing the broken hose, which is the air supply hose. It's a "nice to have" but not absolutely necessary. Your pump will work fine with a broken air supply hose.

    If you do want to replace the air supply hose, it can be done. I got some hose from Doc Mark on this forum and with (a lot of) help from Mark, was able to replace the hose on one of my old yellow pumps. Mark is the expert on the subject, so maybe he'll chime in.

    You are correct, the aluminum tube that points down in normal operation is the fuel pick up tube.

    HJ
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2015
  7. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark United States Subscriber

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    Hey, Chuck,

    Congrats on getting your #9! I'd appreciate seeing some photos of it, actually, if you don't mind sharing them here. MSR labeled a few different stoves as #9, or Model 9 stoves, even though each one was different than the others. Fun, and quite confusing sometimes!

    In any case, yes, the hose can be replaced, but so far, I've only found one type that seems to work every time. Also, please do NOT try to pull those pins out, just yet. I will post some info on this as soon as I finished my work tasks at hand, which should be in the next few days. This info will show you what to do, how to do it, and what to use, as well as possible problems about which you need to be concerned.

    If you would prefer to just have your pump rebuilt, you may send it to me, and I will be happy to do that for you, no charge. Just let me know, and we can go from there. Send me a PT (Private Topic), if you'd like to go that way.

    In either case, I will try to post the pump rebuild info in just a few days. Yours is one of the great stoves from the Model 9/G/GK/X-GK family!! Again, congrats on getting it, and I look forward to talking to you soon.

    HJ, thanks for the nice compliment, my Friend! Heck, none of us are really "experts", as we are always learning from one another, all the time! But, I most certainly have made more than my share of mistakes in mucking about with these wonderful X-GK family of stoves, and am glad to share what I've found that has worked well for me in rebuilding them. Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc

    P.S. I wonder where Chuck lives? We've been talking about another Mini-Meet, and if he's in So. Cal, he could bring his stove, I can show him how to do it there, as well as share the new way I'm working on these pumps. My early efforts, whilst they DO work, are not as good as the way I'm doing it, now!
     
  8. RonPH

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    Doc, well Pacifica is in my end of California coastline about 40 minutes away. Did anyone say mini meet :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Ron
     
  9. Chuck32

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    From what I have seen on this forum and read about my guess is the stove is a fairly early one. I remember seeing the plain aluminum bottle and elected the “new” red anodized one as it made more sense for carrying fuel. Also my flint striker has a finger tightened screw rather than the internal flat blade screwdriver type that holds the flint in. I think it is similar to a zippo lighter but it has been 30 years since I smoked so take that with a grain of salt.
    Your pump rebuild instructions would be very helpful to me and might benefit someone else in the future. After reading your notes I’ll tackle the pump, if it goes upside down you can bet you will hear me yell for help.
    Pacifica is about 6 miles south of San Francisco

    Best regards to all.. thanks for the replies – amazing how fast this forum operates.

    Chuck

    P.S. Mini-Meet in SoCal? Where and when. I will post some photos in the next few days.
     
  10. RonPH

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    Chuck32, yeah, they do a mini meet now and then for the members at so-cal. Your welcome to join the Oregon Stove Gathering (OSG) in August. I live here in San Jose, never been to Oregon and our host/planner Gary is from Oregon so am looking forward to it in August.

    Good luck on your fettle. Holler am only 40 miles away :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Ron
     
  11. hikerduane

    hikerduane United States Subscriber

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    Doc, ever give any thought on substitute materials on fixin the old yeller pumps? One of my yeller ones is missing the retaining pins and the check valve parts, only thing showing is the "O" ring down in there. No big deal, I have other pumps. You've said no before.
    One of my XGK's or maybe two have the thumb screw on the flint tube.

    Good morning Ron!
     
  12. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark United States Subscriber

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    Morning, Duane,

    As to substitute parts for your yellow pump, that's going to be very touch and go. I had sourced out some proper teflon sheets, from which to punch out replacements for that rare part, but unfortunately, a few weeks ago, when I went to visit the surplus store that was going to get it for me, I found the store closed and empty!! They went out of business, which is truly sad, as I've bought parts and goodies from them for around 35 years!!!! :cry: :cry: I wish I knew what happened to them, but there was not even a note on the door. Just vanished into oblivion, as far as I could tell. The other parts, the O-rings, for instance, I do have a source for buying, but the spring would be a rather iffy thing. Whilst it's certainly possible that a replacement spring could be found, I've not yet sourced one that looks good enough, and in the same physical shape, to work with the pump as needed.

    So, to answer your question, one step forward, and five steps back, now that my surplus parts place has gone the way of the buffalo. I'll keep checking and see what happens in the future. Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  13. hikerduane

    hikerduane United States Subscriber

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    Thank you, no big deal, but you know, nice to get all working, even the beaters. Take care.

    Duane
     
  14. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark United States Subscriber

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    Howdy, Chuck, and All,

    Just a bit of info on the finger screw flint setup. I have many stoves from this family that use that system. However, my earliest is the Model 9MF (Multifuel), supposedly from 1975, and it has the small screwdriver flint setup. Though I can't get to all of them right now, it appears that most others of my Model G, Model GK, and some of the X-GK stoves, have the later finger screw flint setup. For what it's worth. Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  15. Chuck32

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    Hello Ron, Duane and Doc,
    I remember the Model 9MF came after the plain Model 9 by several months (I was hanging around REI and Western Mountaineering back in those days as I wasn’t very far away and worked nights). The thumb screw issue is a little easier to explain, I think the little thumb wheels were preferred for ease of field maintenance but not always available so a set screw was used by the designer (very commonly available from bearing houses) Would be interesting for one of you guys with both set screw and thumb screw would tell us if the internally threaded brass rod would accept either type. One of the things I have learned from my stove is when assembling the wind screen if you put the reflective round below the fuel feed tube rather than above it (standard) the stove will “throttle down” a little more. Trapping the heat with a larger diameter pot, windscreen and lower reflective round will definitely aid in low-&-slow cooking.

    ALL THE BEST GUYS, LATER, -C.
     
  16. RonPH

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    Chuck32, me think, Doc can better answer your question as he has a collection of MSR's of different periods. I have only 3 models XGK shaker (with a silent burner), WLI shaker, and the DF shake (rattle and roll :mrgreen: ). All 3 are set up for international travel using kerosene) using the older gray/blue green pumps.

    Newest to the family is the Optimus Nova. The rest are brass stoves and gassies.

    Are you near the Pacifica pier? I do fish there from time to time when gas was a bit cheaper.

    Ron
     
  17. hikerduane

    hikerduane United States Subscriber

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    Chuck, I can check later if no one has helped, I could have looked last night, but I'm moving the MSR stoves to the garage with my other stoves to free up room in my gear closet, so I would have had to put my boots on to go outside, a hard ordeal.:) Those boxes the stoves come in take up lots of room, I guess I should take them out of their original boxes and throw them out. Who would want an old stove with a manufacturers box? :)
     
  18. RonPH

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    HD, I think the value goes up if the box is included. In your case, just flatten it and set it aside if ever you think you will decide to sell the stove.

    Ron
     
  19. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark United States Subscriber

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    Hey, Chuck,

    Man, that would have been an outstanding time to have been able to visit all those great stores, back when they were actually worth something!! We, too, used to haunt the "real" backpacking stores back then, and learned a great deal from the folks that worked there, as back then, they ALL were experienced outdoors folks, and loved their gear!! Now, it's mostly about sales, and the folks that work in those same stores are more salesmen/women, than experienced backpackers, hikers, or mountain climbers! Thanks to God that we got to see how things were back when they actually had substance!!

    As to the two different types of flint setup, they are not interchangeable, unfortunately. The thumbscrew version is much smaller in circumference,, with different threads, than the plug screw setup. Just checked my Model 9MF, and an early Model G, with some later versions, and it's easy to see that they don't interchange.

    As Ron has said, I do love those particular stoves, and believe I have all versions, except the very first #9, which has the burner bell that looked like it had been circumcised with pinking shears, all "frilly dilly" around the edges!! ;) 8) :lol: :lol: Someday, I'll find a nice original #9, and when I do, I'll most certainly buy it!!! Then, I do believe that my collection of the X-GK family of stoves will be complete. In any case, even if I don't ever find one, I truly love these stoves, and still trust them with my life!! The fact is that they simply work, period!! And, they keep on working, come what may, if you know the least thing of what you're about!! You have to love a stove like that, IMHO!!

    Chuck, I look forward to seeing some photos of your own MSR X-GK family of stoves, and any associated goodies that came with them. IF, by any chance, you ever decide to part with some of them, please keep me in mind, especially if you do have an early #9, with the "frilly dilly" burner bell! ;) 8) :lol: :lol: Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
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  20. RonPH

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    Doc, I dont think I have seen a #9 in the flesh he he he. Frilly dilly you say :mrgreen:

    Lets hope he can join us in Aug for the OSG.

    Ron