There are a lot of good little wood stoves out there. However, be aware of seasonal and permanent fire restrictions. I can't speak for New Mexico, but in S. California wood fires in dry season are a big no-no. But w/o restrictions, a little wood stove can be a great thing. HJ
bp56, You have hit on a problem, flying with stoves, that is only going to get worse. Despite your dislike of the blended-gas fueled stoves, those are probably the best bet. Either that or as Jim suggests, alcohol. As for propane, few are about to carry around one of those 1 lb tanks when hiking. For a while BernzOmatic was selling an 8 oz small can of propane for a special torch-ette they had. ( http://www.google.com/products/cata...TPrZD4mkwAX2qbUm&sa=title&ved=0CAcQ8wIwADgA#p ) Originally, it had a Lindahl valve and would fit some canister stoves. I am not sure it was safe since propane has a lot more pressure than the butane/propane blends, but I did test it with a Primus multifuel stove and it kicked butt (kind of frighteningly so).
From the REI website: Interestingly, they will still ship you a quart of liquid fuel. Dept of Transportation restrictions? REI legal dept. more like. Here's a link for Esbit: Esbit Solid Fuel Tablets HJ
Thanks, Doc, HJ and all for your replies. Yes, I know butane stoves are popular; all you have to do is look at the plethora of models in the market place. (I realize it is a blended fuel, not just butane, but I call it butane or 'boutique fuel' for convenience). I can get all the butane canisters I could ever want at REI Co-op in Austin, no need to mail-order per Doc's suggestion. But having canisters at home doesn't solve the air travel problem. I checked the southwest.com website and confirmed SWA's official policy that LF stoves are not allowed on board unless they are new and have never been fueled. They recently relaxed a little and now allow you to carry one butane cigarette lighter. Somehow my friend has managed to skate by so far and get his stove through. We are usually a party of four and my Coleman propane stove lasts about 4 days, then we finish out the week with his MSR Whisperlite. I know about the trick of sending fuel to USPO general delivery. If I could overcome my dissatisfaction with butane, I could do that, or build a stash of canisters at a friend or relative's house, for pickup after my arrival via airline. Another idea would be to send the LF stove ahead by mail, or... just stash another LF stove permanently at said friend or relative's house, ready for use when needed. This way I'd have an excuse for buying another stove! ;-)
Morning, HJ, Yeah, I agree with you. However, I think it also depends on how "big" your store is. On our return home from the lastest work gig, we stopped in Las Vegas, to see the Titanic exhibit, and to buy more Coleman fuel. I found a wonderful store there that has been selling it to me for just $4.99 a gallon for many years!! UNFORTUNATELY, they have decided there are too many new DOT regulations and FEES, and therefore will no longer be carrying, nor ordering, Coleman fuel, or any other liquid fuel!! But, guess what? They still have propane, and mixed fuel cartridges!! So, what gives??? I certainly don't know. In any caes, it's seems the Gov is clamping down is many ways, each of which hurt stores which offer, or used to offer, camping stove fuels. Whatever it is, I don't like it!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
It's getting a little silly. Pretty soon, they'll be telling us "no clothing on planes; it might catch fire." Restricting LF stoves that don't have an attached tank seems pretty silly to me. On the other hand, it's perfectly permissible to carry alcohol such as 190 proof Everclear and matches on board a plane. BP56, you may have hit the nail on the head: mail ahead your LF stove or cache it at a friend or relative's place. Well, here's a stove I think you can even put in your carry on luggage: Empty cat food can, punch a few holes, add a little denatured alcohol, strike a match, and you're in business. HJ
Ah-hah! I see what the problem is... I was doing things in the wrong order... which explains why my cat kept burning his whiskers on the can. =^..^= BP, maybe you can find a Coleman Peak 1 Propane stove on fleabay. Yes, the cans weigh more than one would like to carry in a backpack, but the stove only weighs a few ounces, and, as we've established, propane is (relatively) cheap and ubiquitous. Life is fulla compromises.
I think you may be looking specifically for the propane version of the Apex I. I believe Peak 1 was a product line name rather than the name of a model of stove. Coleman put out several versions of the Apex I that ran on propane: model 3025-701, model 5450-700, and model 5452-700. Coleman used to still have photos up of stoves they no longer sell, but alas at least these three have been deleted. They still list parts and parts diagrams for the 5450 and 5452: http://www.coleman.com/coleman/parts/product_category2.asp?category_id=210 And the 3025: http://www.coleman.com/coleman/parts/ProductImage2.asp?product_id=3025-701 I believe there was also a later version of the 3025, the 3025-722 HJ
A few more facts: My propane stove is a Coleman Model 5438: The mixed fuel canisters we've been talking about are steel, not aluminum. I checked with a magnet. I have a large sized Primus canister, and it says net weight 15.9 oz. This is not appreciably different from the Coleman 16.4 oz bottle. Of course, the MSR Super Fly is much lighter than my Coleman 5438.
BP56, you might trying weighing the two canisters. The steel in the green canister is of a heavier gauge than the steel in the Primus canister. The contents, 16.4 fluid oz vs. 15.9 fluid oz may be roughly the same, but I doubt the weight is. Primus used to make some aluminium canisters, and Coleman makes aluminum canisters for their Rando 360 and "X" lines of stoves, but generally you cannot find standard threaded canisters made out of aluminum. By the way, how big is your party, how many days do you typically spend out, and how much cooking are you doing? Needing an entire 16 oz (~450g) canister is more than I usually take. Last July, for three people for five days cooking twice a day we went through about 4 oz of fuel. We were using a Jetboil which is a pretty efficent stove. We weren't doing heavy duty cooking, but we did make tea, cocoa, etc, and some of our dinners involved cooking multiple dishes. HJ
Party of four out for a week, as mentioned earlier. Two of our party are teenagers who eat everything in sight. We don't strain ourselves in the fuel efficiency department; we just take a little more fuel. Also, I've never been one to fret over pack weight. A pound more or less doesn't matter. I never weigh my pack, so I don't know exactly how much I carry, but it probably isn't much over 40 lb. You're undoubtedly right about canister weight in that the labels give net weight, which on thinking about it must mean the weight of the fuel alone, not counting the container. However, I don't think you are correct in thinking the label reports fluid ounces. For one thing, the label says "Net Wt", not fluid volume, and pressurized fuel is usually sold by weight. as when you get your 20-lb tank refilled for your cookout grill.
Morning, BP56, I just checked the weight of a full Coleman propane cartridge, against a full Primus Power fuel cartridge. The propane cart weights 2 LBS 14 OZ; the Primus cart weights 2 LBS 6 OZ. So, on the face of it, they are close. Where you are going to be carrying dead weight is when the cartridges are empty. I guarantee that the empty propane cartridges will weigh a good bit more than the empty Primus carts. In fact, I just checked it, and an empty Coleman propane cart weighs exactly 1 LB, whiist a near empty Primus cart weight just less then 8 OZ. That's twice as much. Too heavy, in my book, especially when you add in the weight of the stove that will be used with each cartridge. But, after reading your continuing comments, I am pretty sure that this will not make a huge difference to you. You remind me of ME, about 20 years ago. I, too, had no worries over pack weight, and indeed, used to brag about how much weight I could carry for a week in the wilderness!! Of course, after our 850 mile PCT trip in '91, all that went out the window, and I'm VERY concerned about pack weight these days!! 8) Also, I have one of those Coleman Apex propane stoves, and think it's a nice stove. I'd never use it for backpacking, however, as to me, the cartridges are just too heavy to include. But, if you have some strapping teenagers going along on your trip, hey, they can carry the fuel carts, both full and empty! So, with that in mind, I'd suggest a trip to Sports Chalet, REI, or any other decent camping store, and a purchase of a Coleman Perfectflow Stove. It's a 10,000 BTU powerhouse, and we use a pair of them at some events where anything else is retricted for fire regulations. They boil water quickly, simmer delightfully, and if you rig a windscreen for them, they do well in wind, too. They cost around $20-$25, depending on where you buy them. They also come with a five year warranty from Coleman, which is nice. So, this stove/fuel combination seems like it might offer you most of what you want, and at a reasonable price: IF you can go for the bulk and weight of it. Good luck, and let us know how your trip turns out. We love photos, here at CCS, so if you feel like sharing, please post some here, with a trip report, and you will find many happy viewers! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
The 'Honey Stove' works well, burns wood, folds flat, and has a hole pre-drilled to take a Trangia burner. http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/product397.asp
Oh, duh, yes, you're quite right. The amount of gas in a canister is measured by weight not volume. Anyway, you got the point that I was trying to make which is that the 100% propane canisters are heavier than the blended fuel canisters. It doesn't sound like it's the weight you're worried about so much as just the practical matters of travelling with a stove. Your idea of caching a stove at a friend or relative's place sounds like a good one. Alternatively, if you're friend continues to be able to get by with his Whisperlite on flights, you could just cache an extra bottle or two of fuel at your friend or relative's place. If multiple people bring bottles of fuel, you'd have plenty of fuel and generally wouldn't have to bring more than one stove (depending on how fancy you like to get with cooking). Hopefully in the midst of all these suggestions, you'll find one or two that have some practical value to you. Of course, you could always befriend someone with a private plane and then none of this would even be an issue. HJ
That SuperCat cat food alcohol stove actually works extremely well if you use a wind screen. Go to www.jwbasecamp.com to get full instructions on how to make it. You can buy denatured alchol in almost any hardware, WallyWorld, or home improvment store. Purchase the optional anti-gravity button and it weighs nothing.
Doc, I've about worn this thread out, but maybe it'll coast a little farther. The Coleman Perfect Flow 1-burner stove is one of two such models I know of on the market today. The other is the Century 4262. http://www.centurycamping.com/stoves/trail/ Both are 10,000 Btu units, like my Coleman 5438, except they have larger, heavier shields/pot supports, and their burners look a bit different. There is another knockoff unit out there by Texsport, rated at 5,000 Btu, but the construction looks a bit shoddy to me. The Coleman Perfect Flow and the Century 4262 seem to be good quality products and good values, but per my OP: “The Coleman and Century single-burner models have actually gotten bulkier, so they are practically useless for backpacking and are fit only for the picnic table or patio.” Your last post pretty much supported this opinion. Next time I will probably send a large Primus canister on ahead by surface mail, and give my MSR Super Fly another try. Here’s a picture of my stove in action on our recent trip, attended by those two greedy young beggars: Here's a shot of myself and quarry, a Gila-Rainbow hybrid trout: A blessed moment: Ready for the trail:
Nice pics. I remember hiking with my father in the Pecos Wilderness in NM when I was in high school. What kind of problems have you been having with your Superfly? They're generally good stoves, although they will not be as wind resistant as your 5438. You're 5438 has an Apex style burner which offers some wind resistance, whereas your Superfly is more the silent burner type which doesn't offer much in the way of wind resistance. You could rig up a partial (perhaps 270' of coverage) windscreen. A full (360' coverage) windscreen is dangerous with a canister stove, particularly in decent weather. The S'fly also would be a little bit less stable since its pot supports create a smaller area on which to support a pot. The S'fly doesn't have the plastic base that your 5438 does, but you can get various types of canister stands. http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/Canister Stands/Canister Stove Stands.html If you're using Primus fuel, the Primus Footrest would be a good choice. http://www.amazon.com/Primus-Foot-Rest-for-Canister/dp/B000L5LV7U The only place where a Superfly will really fall flat on its face is in temperatures below freezing, but that doesn't sound like the kind of hiking that you're doing. HJ
HJ, My problems with MSR Superfly? From OP: I'm getting the picture that I shouldn't really have lumped the Superfly and similar modern stoves into the same category as the Hank Roberts because modern stoves with blended fuels have higher heat output. I probably judged the Superfly's performance in the field unfairly due to using a small canister, which didn't last worth beans. It may be that using a large canister will yield both the power and the duration I want. I should perhaps explain that although I have the large Primus canister pictured previously, I haven't really used it. When camping locally, I use liquid fuel. The one time I used the Superfly on an airline-based trip, all I could find was small canisters. However, I stand by my main point, if you will pardon my repeating it, that I would welcome a stove that is small like the Superfly, but screws onto the propane bottle. Propane is easier to find in the hinterland stores, it is cheap, performs better, and the canister isn't that much heavier than the comparable Primus canister. I believe Doc said it comes down to a matter of about 8 oz additional weight. Regards, BP56
