I just received an original style Svea 123 and have questions about the newer Optimus Svea 123r. The original Svea is pictured below. My questions and observations: The new out of the box Optimus 123r surges while it is burning and has a bit of yellow tip at full throttle. The original Svea 123 burns with a consistent small jet engine sound, and the flame remains blue all the time. Is there something wrong with the Optimus 123r? The Optimus 123r boils 24 ozs of water between 5 min 59 sec to 6 min 11 sec on 15 trials. The original Svea 123 boils 24 ozs of water between 4 min 45 sec to 5 min 15 sec on 10 trials. What is going on here? The old 123 boils the same amount of water about one minute faster? The two are almost identical except for the cleaning needle in new Optimus 123r. The tank caps are interchangeable as is the windscreen. The burner heads look almost the same with possibly a slight size difference. The burner plates are also almost identical. Should the Optimus 123r be making the surging noise while burning? Could there something wrong with it? Why and how can the almost identical orignal Svea 123 boil water 1 minute faster?
Planetary ambient air pressure was stronger back when those original 123s were made, probably as a result of the post-WWII gravity surge. Accordingly, with today's air pressure more nearly at historical norms, the older 123 has a performance advantage over the later 123R. I am at a loss, however, to explain the pulsations in the 123R.
Hi Michael, the "old style" 123's (non R ) were made in Sweden, to a rather high standard (in fact, all Swedish stoves were! ). Nowadays, like so many things, production is outsourced to "low labour cost" countries and quality control has gone down. The fact that your new 123R burns with yellow tips means combustion is not complete, and this will be the reason for longer boil times (the flame will not be as hot as on the older model). Maybe a swap of jets might show some difference. Also, slightly upping or lowering of the burnerplate (you can first try to unscrew the burnerbell a little at a time, gives you some results in one direction) might cure the yellow tips. Hope this helps, regards, Wim
Actually, I believe it is because of the reduction of the partial pressure of Oxygen in the atmosphere due to the increase in the human population. We all need to learn to live on less Oxygen if we want our stoves to burn blue.
Wim, Moved the burner plate down...flame yellower and sootier. Moved the plate up more and saw improvement, but have noticed something else here. The flames are still a little yellow tipped and the whole flame is crooked. It is off kilter. Flames on one side are a little higher and more yellow tipped the other side has more blueish flame to it. The plate is on straight and is evenly supported by the tabs. ???? Mike
Dead still tonight. Been really hot and no wind most of the day. Lit the Svea 123 again and it is a champ. I think the new Optimus Svea 123r is not well made like Wim said. I am starting to think the jet on this stove is defective...
I like both the 123s, R and non-R, but I like the non-R better for the bigger range of flame control. I can't seem to see the difference in flame height or heat output though. I just fired up an R and it didn't seem any better or worse. Would have to do many boil tests to see any difference in performance. All of my 123s are Made in Sweden, even the Rs. I don't have a late model R that is made in other-than-Sweden. I was shipped an late model R once by a seller trying to pass it off as a Sievert 123. That turned into a big fight with yabe buyer protection. What a mess that was. Anyway, as long as you fill the tank on the older 123 with clean fuel, you probably won't use the jet pricker very much, if at all, which is the big difference between the older version and the R version. So far, in the last 4 or 5 years, at least, I haven't had to use the jet pricker on any of my 123s, especially the one that goes with me on all my hikes. As for the surging, the wick may have come out of the burner valve, which is sitting inside the tank. I've had surging occur on 123s, 8Rs, and one 8R clone when the wick had actually fallen out and was swishing around in the fuel. The surging stopped when I put a new wick in. If your R is new, I would send it back. It wouldn't be difficult to replace the wick, but why do that when you could be sent a brand new one since you were sent a defective one. 2 cents on that one. If it is the wick and you want to fix it, there are plenty of post that talk and show how to do that. sam
Sam, Thanks for the advice. Will check the wick later today. If it is down in the tank or low i'll just push the wick back in and see how it works from there. Mike.
i have found variance in flame pattern among 123Rs - my guess would be the jet if the flame pattern is off, especially after adjustment of the plate to proper center and height
1. there is nothing wrong with your SVEA 123R 2. a minute here or there does not matter….and besides you repeat next week next month next year it will probably be different. 3. The “noise” many people claim is unique to the 123/123R is a fallacy…..it is NOT unique to this stove it is all to do with the type of burner plate. Look at this post of mine here: https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/15593 When you get there you’ll see it is 1977 model Optimus 96 paraffin stove….with a similar plate to that used on the SVEA 123/R petrol stoves……….this 96 makes an identical “noise” to some of my 123/R’s. Wim said: He is quite right. Finally on boil times – here is a quote from Colin Fletcher in his The Complete Walker 4, page 308: “ It is important that you don’t treat the information in these(or any) tables as gospel. The fickness of stoves remains one of the deeper mysteries of life. So every series of tests remains the subject of the vagaries and variabilities of individual stoves (any stove may perform differently on successive burns), of fuels and cartridges, and of experimental conditions. But none of these things quite seem to explain why independent investigators, seeking only the truth, generate figures so disparate that you sometimes wonder if they live on the same planet. Still, the disparities are a fact. I therefore rest confident that somebody somewhere will do similar tests and come up with wildly different answers.” Cheers, Rob
What Rob said, with the small exception that my main 123 has a fast subtle flutter that reminds me of an old small-horsepower outboard motor; a bit different than my kero roarers.... 8)
I've had a 123 (non R) since 1968 and never had it fail to light and run as well as it did when new. It putts along like a small jet engine, one of nature's most comforting sounds. I've tried several 123R's and haven't liked them nearly as much. I think it's a luddite thing mostly. More machinery in the burner head gives greater chance of poor performance or even failure. Just the greater mass of brass to heat up may cause some problems. My suggestion is that you search around for a 123 (nonR) and trade or barter your 123R for something more to your liking. Perhaps an 18 or 19 yr old Blonde Scandinavian type nymphet sleeping bag warmer. I got one of those over 40 years ago and as high maintainence as she's proven to be over the years, she's been well worth the grief. Gerry
I wholeheartedly agree with Gerry, whose posts were among those that helped teach me how to operate my stove efficiently. If you choose to go the sleeping bag route instead, a selection of warmers of undetermined regional origins may be found on this page.
Got a sleeping bag warmer a while ago and have decided that one bed warmer is more trouble than any man needs.
Hey Sam, Took your advice and contacted Opitmus customer service. They responded to my e-mail with a phone call in one day. They will be sending me a new stove that has been checked out by their technician in Minneapolis, MN. Very quick response and happy to replace the stove with one that works. Shoud have it by Friday. By the way, I could see a lot of wick in the tank, but the stem was sealed in place with some sort of sealing compound. Could not remove it to see for sure about the wick issue without some drastic measures. Mike.
