Primus 41 with silent burner Priming begins, temperature just above priming cup 138°C ... ... but the silent burner cap's only reached 77°C as yet, so around half the temperature it needs to reach to keep the paraffin vapourised Most of the priming charge of meths is used up and the burner is easily hot enough now at 262°C to vapourise paraffin Paraffin firing soon raises the burner temperature to 483°C ... ... getting to 514°C with a kettle on the pot rest Kettle's soon hovering around boiling point Kettle removed, burner shut down, the pot rest temperature is 233°C ... ... but one of the outriggers jutting into the burner flame is still at 381°C On this firing, ambient temperature a mere 13°C, the tank temperature only got up to 26°C John
Hi John I wonder if an 8R would be a better stove to compare to the Radius 46. The 99 has an alloy case that seems to conduct heat. It also seems to conduct cold a bit to well too. I bet you are having fun! Dan I hope someone can loan you a 199 or an Optimus Loke - those would be interesting. As would an Optimus Trapper (I have overfilled and overheated mine once).
I checked out a Coleman oven with the camera tonight, curious to know how approximate the door-mounted oven temp thermometer might be and to take a look at the heat distribution inside the oven. Having had plenty of bread cook in the oven with the crust on the base, I already knew that the oven's hottest bottom up, but thought it would be interesting to get a thermal profile in °C. Chilly evening in north-west England and breezy too, so thought it best to power up the oven with a Primus 85, which I expected would offset the wind chill factor. I could have got by with a smaller stove and some heatproof insulation over the oven, or even a sheet of aluminium foil, but I didn't want to alter the thermal properties of the oven. Primus 85 roarer at full throttle. In the first two shots the wind's caught the flames Flame ring at 513°C ... ... rising to 604°C with the oven on the pot stand Door skin (external) of the oven at 72°C Door thermometer showed 200°C, door open to check the internal temps. Base at 395°C Lower part of oven at 262°C Middle shelf 150°C Top of oven 137°C I'd say from those results that the door thermometer gave a very good approximation of the oven temperature at shelf level, bearing in mind that the shelf could have been dropped to the second level of mounting slots, where the temperature would have been pretty close to 200°C The second point to make is that the temperature maxed out at 200°C in those conditions and that's on one of the most powerful burners around. I know from experience of using that oven/stove combination that on a summer's day I'd have to throttle the burner to a little over a simmer to keep the oven thermometer from going off the scale. So, as you might expect since it's of metal and not double-skinned, the oven radiates (wastes) a lot of heat and even a moderate amount of insulation (aluminium foil works fine) can reduce the burner power requirement substantially. That's still more in Coleman suitcase stove territory rather than Primus 210 though! Slab-sided construction aside, hinges and ventilation slots radiate plenty of heat also John
Nice work P.C. As usual you are "breaking ground". The hardest part of thermal imaging is getting the span and level set to the temperatures you are working with. If more are interested, I've access to a Fluke Ti25. I have used it around the house to find air infiltration and to check the effectiveness of my insulating work. High temps and flame shots push the capabilities of most IR equipment and I haven't given it a try yet. I could be persuaded. I've been curious if you can see thermal transfer along vaporizer tubes and gauge reflected heat to fonts especially for those FRANKIES I've made. AR
Hi AR Main drawback with this TI camera is that it's fixed focus with no macro facility, optimised at 3 meters to infinity. That's fine for it's designed use in firefighting/rescue situations, but incapable of getting a sharp close-up of a metre down to a half-metre or closer. If that were possible, I'd be trying to record phenomena like underburn in silent burners or the sort of detailed thermal profile you speak of in vapourising tubes. Even without a close-up capability, a tripod's essential as always, and though intended to be used mostly hand-held in dynamic rescue situations, it's got a tripod bush in its base and I've made good use of that throughout. You've mentioned heat ranges, and this camera has three. 'Medium' is what I've been using, which gets me the peak and minimum levels for the subject matter (stoves) in the one readout. I've noticed that the interpretation of results can be tricky at times. Specifically, the camera will record temperature reflected from a shiny metal tank or surface but that's not necessarily the temperature of that surface. One or two of the shots I've shown demonstrate that. It skews results if not taken into account by getting the cursor on a part of the surface close by that's not throwing off a reflection. Thanks for your comments. Yes indeed, I'd like you to dig out that Fluke Ti25 and get some shots posted! Regards, John
IR image of an IMCO lighter against a cold Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. Optimally the IR image will be directly over the real image. This model is capable of a minimum distance of 13cm. What do you think?? AR
Thanks AR, Sam. Your thermal imaging camera is better for close-range, that's for sure, AR. That's precisely the sort of detailed view I was keen to see but couldn't with the Argus camera. Yes indeed, Sam, the classic stoves are classics for sound reasons, one of which is that their design was precisely 'right' and they continue to go on working, with a little fettling help from time to time. John
Any of you tried pointing one of those cameras at the ventilator and hood of a pressure lamp? I'd be interested to know what kind of temperatures are reached thereabouts...
It would be interesting to know. When I was a young scout I was introduced to Tilley toast. This is bread toasted on the top of a Tilley lantern. Gets a nice kero fume taste as well
I've had sweet mince pies heated on top of a Tilley (as it happened) - very nice camping in the Lake District at the end of November. No kero taste either! I suppose anything in a foil container could be heated like that...
Thermal images of 111B Priming Still priming Detail of burner tubes. I think this does a good job of showing the thermal conductivity of the burner tubes. Roarer in full glory Side view Detail of fuel tube I am still learning the finer points and details about this camera setup. Many of these images have "reflected heat" that may be perceived as a hot spots. If you look at the heat shield and the top of the fuel tube in the side shots there are signs of reflectivity. This camera has settings for Emissivity for different base material but I'm not 100% sure how to limit reflectivity. As with standard photography angle is probably the key. This series of photos was takes in "AUTO" mode. I can adjust for matte brass as an option for future experiments. I'll put that on the list to do. If I don't get around to it gently jog my memory. AR
What a great thread. Old as it is, it gave me the information I was looking for in vain on the rest of the internet. I needed to know the burner temp of a Svea 123 as I am looking to get and repurpose an aluminum pot stand but was concerned with melting it. So it appears the 658C melting temperature of aluminum is quite a bit above the heat put out by the stove and as it won't be in direct contact with the flame I'll go for it. Thanks for the knowledge and an interesting discussion.
@Billofthenorth , There are burner temps in these pics in the 700*C range 3rd pic >698*C 4th pic top of burner 666.6*C thats hot as hell. Will the pot support be IN the flame or NEAR the flame as the Primus 71E canister or Optimus 88 cook set?
@presscall You're the man. you answered my questions and topic 12 years ago... no joke, you're a treasure to this forum!!!
