Early (August 1998) Dragonfly

Discussion in 'MSR - Mountain Safety Research' started by presscall, Feb 19, 2020.

  1. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    The fuel bottle’s branded Primus, so not original to the outfit, but most likely contemporary.

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    A possible prototype Dragonfly on display at an MSR exhibition.

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    Connector block and the 08 98 date stamp.

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    The full set of wind shielding and heat deflector.

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    In use in this photo fold-out in the publicity booklet that came with the stove.

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    Stuff sack.

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    What’s been described, with some justification, as a pump with known shortfalls. The blue and red pump - ask @Doc Mark and other long-time users of MSR equipment about that one!

    In evidence, plastic pump cap holding tags broken off on both sides. The norm with this pump, sometimes occurring first time in use apparently.

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    However, all credit to MSR, for a feature that originated with this original pump, arising out of the Dragonfly’s two shut-off valves, the pump one and the one at the burner (that provides the excellent control of flame output the Dragonfly is renowned for).

    Perhaps learning from their earlier Firefly stove, which also had a valve at the burner and at the (yellow-coloured) stove pump, the Firefly arrangement made it possible to shut the stove down at the burner valve but forget to close the pump valve.

    If pressure had not already been released from the bottle at the cap and the fuel hose connector were then removed from the pump, a stream of fuel under pressure would come out of the pump outlet.

    Except ...

    With the blue and red Dragonfly pump, MSR incorporated what they refer to as a poppet valve. A spring-loaded, rounded valve tip projects slightly into the fuel outlet tube. Depressed by the fuel hose connector tube, fuel flows through the hose. Connector removed, the poppet valve closes, the seal made by that small O-ring seen in the illustration of the valve below.

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    Tip of valve visible in the fuel outlet tube.

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    MRS’s contemporary Duraseal pump for the Dragonfly has a poppet valve safety feature too.

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    The paperwork with the stove.

    Instructions. Pump schematic, shows the poppet valve.

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    How to set up the wind shield and heat deflector.

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    The publicity booklet with the stove, bulk of it taken up with text in other languages.

    Front/back. Chewed by a mouse and fuel (fuel I hope) stains.

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    Serendipity I think it’s called. Mouse nibblings and fuel stains combine to suggest the Dragonfly is much loved.

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    John
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  2. hikerduane

    hikerduane Subscriber

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    Last night. My go to stove when backpacking and fix spaghetti. Using its yellow pump.
    Duane
    IMG_5928.JPG
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  3. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    @hikerduane
    I know, the ‘poppet in the fuel line’ is superfluous if you simply remember to switch off at the bottle first!

    Early MSR fuel bottle I see Duane.

    John
     
  4. hikerduane

    hikerduane Subscriber

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    @presscall, that is the 50th Anniversary bottle, white like a much earlier one. @OMC, turned me on to those. I do have the Sigg and MSR labeled bottles in my MSR collection.
    Duane
     
  5. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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  6. anfeng

    anfeng SotM Winner Subscriber

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    In 1998, the msr dragonfly and titanium fuel bottle were released at the same time, and the combination pattern was included in the cover of the early dragonfly's manual. 4162D908-CCB4-47EE-8ED8-2C0B22F59442.jpeg 32F0BA9E-9AF4-4AFE-AA31-DE1B47DFD3FE.jpeg 91FE4A46-190E-4808-9FCC-83E03E75D385.jpeg B8F33E4A-18A7-4F2D-A51A-A881EE1E9D50.jpeg
     
  7. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    @anfeng
    Thanks for that, outstanding!

    I repaired the ‘blue and red’ pump with broken ‘tags’. Fettling post HERE.
     
  8. Harder D. Soerensen

    Harder D. Soerensen United States Subscriber

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    Thanks for sharing John, Duane and Anfeng!

    Arrrgh - now I am wondering which one to prefer - the Firefly or the Dragonfly?
     
  9. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Dragonfly is multifuel.
     
  10. hikerduane

    hikerduane Subscriber

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    My error, caught a few days late, I showed my FF instead of my DF. Sorry.
    Duane
     
  11. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    @hikerduane
    So it’s the Dragonfly that’s your ‘go to’ stove then Duane? I thought the Firefly was perhaps a surprise choice for regular use.

    John
     
  12. hikerduane

    hikerduane Subscriber

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    The FF is my stove for spaghetti, the DF is best for food that simmers a long time, but I have a BD silent cap for it so it is quiet.
    Duane
     
  13. paultee

    paultee Canada Subscriber

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    Sorry for reviving this older thread, but I've been trying to gather some insights on the "vintage" Dragonfly brazing. @presscall since you're both an expert in silbraze work on here and you have a '98 model, when you look at that connection at the bell with that u-shaped wire, do you see it as a definite break point? I know they later opted to drill holes in the bell and abandoned this design choice. Have you considered beefing it up/redoing the brazing or is it fair to chalk up failures to noisy complaints and batch deficiencies? I would wager it was common enough for MSR to redesign in the mid 2000s.
     
  14. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    I’m flattered, but a lot more to learn yet!

    The fuel pipe to burner joint is securely brazed.

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    The ‘U-shaped wire’ you mention looks pretty well connected too.

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    I wouldn’t consider that a subject for a re-braze or reinforce re-braze but if it were ever to shear it wouldn’t be much if a job to repair it.

    John
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2022
  15. paultee

    paultee Canada Subscriber

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    Yes, I feel the same way, but there are a handful of examples online of people who'd had their stove detach at that point. From what I could determine, at some point in the mid-2000s MSR altered the design. I happen to have one of each, but never put much thought into it before running into someone's youtube video of a failed stove. I was talking to an MSR rep last week for an unrelated repair and he wasn't aware of it, so I imagine it's isolated to a batch. Here are photos of my 1998 vs 2020 Dragonfly:

    1998 goes around the bell bottom:

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    2020 goes through the bell! (with a chunk of the wick missing--it's second hand):


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    And just for curiosity's sake, here's a side by side of the longer fuel line on the 2020 model:



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    And truly, the things I've seen you craft on here qualify you as an expert! The fact that it seems sound to you and there isn't a chorus of people saying "it's a deathtrap!" like those flawed REI-era pumps, then I'm going to keep enjoying it.
     

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  16. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    @paultee Looking at your 2020 example Paul, I’m of a mind to suppose the revision could have been a cost saving - or to be more charitable, realising that a more direct and obvious route for the support component was to be had. Maybe.

    John