"In this context sets of parts for the manufacturing of stoves in Peru under Bacho/Primus license" - wow, that sounds rather like the old Land Rover 'CKD' kits. Land Rover, from the 1950s, used to send sets of parts, components, all over the world to be built up under license - CKD = Completely Knocked Down Obviously a well established system for well established European manufacturers with insatiable world wide markets.
Hi @igh371 , In Sweden during 1930's US cars like Chevys and others were assembled from kits like you describe. They came in large wooden boxes that workers reused and built summer cabins with... This way of local assembly from kits was often justified by lower duty tariffs for sets compared to complete cars. In the Primus/Peru case the kits were not complete however. These sets consisted of burners and some other parts.
"In the Primus/Peru case the kits were not complete however. These sets consisted of burners and some other parts." - this was also increasingly the case with Land Rover too, with locally produced content gradually increasing over time, especially in South Africa and Latin America in particular .
@johanKK thank you. You have inspired this post. It is a slight drift from the OP but the answers in this thread include Swedish military context from those with direct experience.. like yourself . I am most interested in your recent comment in a thread re 111s. The full text of your comment is pasted below. Primarily my intent is to better understand what you meant. IF after that some might want to elaborate, we'll go on from there, great. MANY members share mutual interest in Swedish military experience and items. Moderator @Christer Carlsson if you too think this a worthy effort please chime-in. I am guessing Johan represents a later generation military experience than your own, which in itself could be interesting (comrades march on while time marches on). It seems a good chance we'll learn something. Again, the intent, get better idea of what johan meant, for English readers. johan, > A. re "We where issued 88s for self cooking" then ok. > re "Roarer in the Cantine box" The KOKUTRUSTNING 10B /S, meaning the roarer burner of a No. 154 ? (a lil more confident on that) Going back to > A. re "We where issued 88s for self cooking ^^^ that and the next 2 lines, these indicate 2 or 3 model 111s issued to Swedish military? > B. re "...followed by the Triple 188 neve used wth spirit." Triple 188 ??? (a 111_ model extension may be tricky but a triple fuel 111? silent?) > C. re "...Then ...Mecano 111 … [ the Loke ]" Mecano 111 ??? ---------------------- > D. re "the Loke" [ Mecano 111 ]... the Loke" "The Loke" i think we get, Optimus 85 Loke ENMANSKÖK M/87 MT ? > E. re "Ranger where much easier" Optimus Ranger 10: Norwegian civilian stove? … no? ,... or what "Ranger" I wonder ? > F. re "... new 111 roarers … Later came the one with the Italian silent burner." ??? > G. re M40... " As for spiritburners we had the enlisteds Cook pan and lid with Windshield and Burner and spirit bottle, the non rattling contaption was a kitchen towel and complete with can opner, 3 piece silver and our 3 dl Kåsa (driking cup) " M40 snuskburken I presume. > H. re "With rank among men followed the Svea 77." Enmanskök jăgare, Optimus 88A (or predecessor) ? thank you and I gotta run will have to followup. YOUR TEXT During the Years there have been some 111s. We where issued 88s for self cooking, there was always a Roarer in the Cantine Box, with equipment for cooking, frying and serving for 12. It was followed by the Triple 188 neve used wth spirit. Then we got the Mecano 111 the Loke, hard to operate in the dark and lot of parts to lose in the whte. Ranger where much easier. As the Stores where spread I bout a pair of new 111 Rorers for 13$ together. Later came the one with the Italien silent burner. But all mine has been used in the Bush or Snow. As for spiritburners we had the enlisteds Cook pan and lid with Windshield and Burner and spirit bottle, the non rattling contaption was a kitchen towel and complete with can opner, 3 piece silver and our 3 dl Kåsa (driking cup) we where young and armed with hunger for all old canned food. With rank among men followed the Svea 77. As comissionde we had to give them up. So in the Outdoor store we bought a Tranigia and a Kåsa (some of us in Wood as Lappland souvenirs), borroved a Spoon to add to the Sheet Knife (Could also have been one from the Land of 8 Seansons). Can Opner and Curve Needle we all had in our small Coins folder. I soon went over to the CH orignal META 50. I prefere the roarers, and in a dug out snow shelf with excrelent Wind protection it is almost silent 2 m away. The 4 mm Plywood tray/cutbord and stove bottom prevents it to disapere in the withe. Handy too are the Radius 34 with silent Burners. Just check that your fuel Bottle don´t leak. We always packed stove and fuel in an outside pocket on our big BackPacks in a study plastic bag. So that our warm garment and sleeping bag did not have to smell kersosine too much.
On the contrary. He is from an earlier generation of military service since he, according to his stats, are twenty years older than me. But he has more experience of the cooking gear, from what it sounds like. We didn't do much cooking our-selves. We were almost always fed by the boys in the field kitchen when we were out. They needed the practice too. On some occasions we used the mess kit and its spirit burner for field rations, but those were the only times I used a personal stove in the military, and it was always the same old personal mess kit we always dragged around. We also operated a large Optimus blow torch for heating the radiator system on our band wagon some times.
My thanks to @johanKK again, A language barrier may add difficulty (delay / hesitation). I am enthusiastic and appreciative, but I do not "need" the explanations. The intent is to maybe learn more re Swedish military 111s based on johan comments. Further explanation may or may not come about, either way is ok. -------------------------------- all, Thank you Christer, Re 111s, do you have hunch or guess re his: > A. re "We where issued 88s for self cooking > B. re "...followed by the Triple 188 neve used wth spirit." > C. re "...Then ...Mecano 111 … [ the Loke ]" ??? ??? ??? ---------------------------- I will insert Stejar's excellent content re Swedish military 111s Incl. one line of text I wish I had considered for my 1st comment above, that is this: "Typically the Optimus 111 was part of the .., Canteen 5 ...and Canteen 10B Kit. These were wooden crates containing everything you needed to serve meals to 5 or 10 men respectively (i.e. cutlery, plates, mugs and so on)." ----------------------- Re Stejar 111 text & images source Swede military type 1 & 2 both roarers. A slight variation of 1&2 , also roarer, came up later in thread. 111B (roarer) had rare use with Swedish civil defense. Stejar shared that some of the 111 details were unclear. I confess memory fails, I would have thought there were Swedish military "issued" 111 silent versions (triple fuel) and maybe considerably more than 2 versions issued over many years? ------------------------------------------------------ Lastly and in-part why I asked (re "88" and "188") … Optimus (TYVM) already has five iterations of "88_" in-use: the 111 Optimus Hiker + … model No. 88: "88A" Enmanskök jăgare military & 88 civilian 88 and 88N civilian solo cook set 73 ad offers No.88, one sauce pan. 76 brochure and 78 Parts list offer 2 pans with No. 88N reference … and I gotta run
Please? some assist translating Carl's early Swedish (C.R. Nyberg) re a word he used: bröst (and bröstet) thank you. His context is this: "Den av mig konstruerade blåslampan var helt av mässing. Oljehuset var gjort av 1,25 mm. mässingplåt med slaglodlödda fogar och inåtbockad botten, på vars sida en ögla var fastsatt. I denna ögla var en annan, med vidsittande koniskt stift, som gick upp genom ett hål i lampans bröst, där den var fastlödd med tenn. I vanliga fall blev aldrig trycket så stort i lampan, att säkerhetsstiftet behövde tjänstgöra genom att botten bockade ut sig. Men ....kunde det hända att trycket i lampan bli för stort: då bockar botten ur sig något och drar loss stiftet vid hålet i bröstet så mycket att det överflödiga trycket upphör. Denna mycket enkla anordning, som är mycket effektiv, om den är rätt konstruerad, är nog delvis orsaken till det goda rykte mina lampor haft på världsmarknaden "
@OMC, at the risk of being totally shot to pieces, I'm thinking that he is using these terms to refer to the main body of the lamp. What we today would simply refer to as the fuel tank, which is also the pressure vessel (hence the link to this choice of term). The discussion seems to be centred around the innovation of the soldered pin designed to be released/blown out in case of over heating leading to dangerous over-pressurisation of the tank.
his prototypes and earliest examples were spherical. Like everyone every where (to ease the production effort) he adopted cylindrical pressure vessel. Adopting a most common shape, vertical cylinder, dish on bottom and dome top. Myself, also "at the risk of being totally shot to pieces" it seems he is referencing the dome top a human analogy one woman's breast ... gets us chest/bröst. I can't help but consider he wanted to explain, yes the vessel, but in particular the dome/top/ "the bosom" ???
Well (bröst) ……. the front upper side of a body (vessel/tank) oppose to the back upper side (rygg)! /Conny
THANK YOU bröst , bröstet... ok. Ahh. Yet there was no confusion with translating same type Swedish description in a Nyberg 1904 patent (stove): fotogenbehållare översida kerosene container top .... som gick upp genom ett hål i lampans bröst .... ( blowlamp ) but in-use on stoves too ... lampans bröst
Svenska medlemmar, context FYI Sunbyberg ... factories: C. R. Nybergs verkstad för tillverkning af löd-lampor och kokapparater (1885) (*google books/translate tells us) C. R. Nyberg's workshop for the manufacture of solder lamps and cooking appliances (1885) later in the same text are the following lines: Fortsätter man längre österut, påträffar man i Solna socken ätskilliga större fabriker. I början på 1880-talet fanns vid Järfva en rullgardinsfa- brik, och i slutet af 1890-talet drefs en annan dylik i samma socken. Åren 1891—92 utflyttades från Stockholm Ekmans stora snickerifabrik, som 1858 grundats af arkitekten P. J. Ekman, och år 1894 anlades impregnerings- fabriken Svea. ^^^ lines ending with .... (*) " in 1894 the impregnation the Svea factory." Before I get ahead of myself (again) what other interpretation might there be for what occurred c. 1894 re the SVEA factory (in Sundbyberg)?
Waterproofing may be a better word for impregnering. "The waterproofing factory Svea was founded in 1894"
edit is do-over Christer, THANK YOU. (*) English word was impregnation You are confident we do not go with the prominent English definition: The act of making pregnant; fertilization (and meanings aligned with that) and go with 2nd definition (aligns with impregnering ) : process of imbuing or saturating with something; diffusion of some element, idea etc. through a medium or substance. No kidding... 1894 water proofing company. ----------------------------- So for me result of this search is a swing and a miss (no good). I've been trying to find ANY detail post Nyberg Victoria stove. Earliest detail(s) relating to earliest SVEA stoves (pre-dating the 1908 catalog). the slog continues thanks again
while translating text from No.5S:or page in 1911 Primus (B.A.Hjorth) No. 205 you can open that page if looking into this further. google results can often be better sorted easy enough. Fotogenköket Primus N:o 5 Senior. Tystbrinnande. Själftändande. The kerosene stove Primus No. 5 Senior. Silent burning. Self-igniting ------------------- Here are a couple lines i did not want my guess at it to turn out wrong.: Dessa kök äro alldeles dess som de ofvan beskri sedda med en « k. själttändande brännare. Lågan tändor sig själf, så att man ej behöfver passa med pumpning: google result needs some help. Please help with this: Entirely made of finely polished brass. Burns as quietly as cooking gas. These kitchens are just like the ones above describe seen with a « k. soul-igniting Burner. The flame lights itself, so that does not need to fit with pumping: thank you
Any translator will have several problems with texts like these, since they are written in an archaic type of Swedish with extra letters tucked in, and even different letters in some places, from what we use today. We had that kind of anomaly between spelling vs. speaking long up throughout the former century, and that will certainly be problem for anyone trying to use an online translator for old catalogues and manuals. In modern Swedish the relevant text (from below the bold text"Brinner lika tyst som kokgas", i.e. "Burns as silent as city gas", should be: Dessa kök är av samma typ som de ovan beskrivna, men är försedda med en så kallad självtändande brännare. Lågan tänder sig själv, så att man ej behöver passa på för pumpningen. Compare that to the original text... Now paste this more modern text in a translator, and you will get a slightly better result: These kitchens are of the same type as those described above, but are equipped with a so-called self-igniting burner. The flame lights itself, so you don't have to watch for the pumping. Now what's mainly wrong still, is that it translate kök as kitchen, which not is wrong per se, since we use the word kök for both kitchen and stove. But of course here the translation should be stove! And then the last sentence "Passa på för pumpningen" is fairly correct in this last translation, but perhaps it's better with a more free translation. "Passa på för pumpningen" means something like: "sit and watch for the preheating flame to extinguish and be prepared to start pumping just before it does" Or why not just simply "montoring the preheating process in order to start pumping"?
@Christer Carlsson thank you i wanted to tweek it a little, I did more than that, sorry. below "id est" means: in other words. I welcome corrections. Would the following version also be accurate? Dessa kök äro alldeles dess som de ofvan beskri id est > Detta kök är av samma typ som beskrivits ovan > This kitchen is the same type as described above sedda med en « k. själttändande brännare. id est > men är utrustad med självantändande brännare. > but is equipped with self-igniting burner. > Lågan tändor sig själf, så att man > The flame lights itself, [[ priming flame, by itself, lights the burner ]] ej behöfver passa med pumpning: id est > förvärmningen behöver inte övervakas. > the preheat does not need to be monitored. ====================================== Dessa kök äro alldeles dess som de ofvan beskri sedda med en « k. själttändande brännare. Lågan tändor sig själf, så att man ej behöfver passa med pumpning: id est / in other words > Detta kök är av samma typ som beskrivits ovan men är utrustad med självantändande brännare. Lågan tändor sig själf, förvärmningen behöver inte övervakas. > This kitchen is the same type as described above but is equipped with self-igniting burner. The flame lights itself, [[ the priming flame, by itself, lights the burner ]] the preheat does not need to be monitored.
Yet again; "Kök" in Swedish should practically always be translated as "Stove" on this site. Not "Kitchen", as in your suggestion above, even if that's always what any online translator will suggest (which I pointed out in my reply before yours)... But apart from that... well, yes. I think you mainly repeated what I just said above. Just in other words, so sure; It will be acceptable.
oh sorry (and i lost track of things here got a ph call w/terrible news) i'm ok with kitchen word, that is the Swedish translation and can mean both there but that's the word. edit: oops. i was away and rushed that answer. for us for here "stove" it is. re I think you got it fairly correct from what I already said in my previous post. good, yes and to your credit of course, i would be entirely lost w/o your tutelage. thanks again
