PHOEBUS - PHÖBUS Gerson, Boehm & Rosenthal

PHOEBUS - PHÖBUS
Please solve relations between two brands
differents "Ö umlaut" no "E"
is it archaic form of PHOEBUS, or probe to create similar brand?

 

Good question Gieorgijewski. I've wondered about that also. Since we don't have umlauts in English it's probably just anglicizing the Austrian name. There always seems to be English on all stoves for some reason. My Radius has "genuine Radius apparatus" in 10 languages but then says Made in Sweden instead of Tillverkad i Sverige. A Russian market Svea has Cyrillic all over even spelling Svea the Russian way as CBEA. Still says Made in Sweden in English. Even a German Petromax doesn't say Hergestellt in Deutschland but Made in Germany instead.

 

I would guess that the original, Austrian spelling was Phobus, with an umlaut over the "o". If I'm not mistaken (German speakers feel free to comment), the umlaut "o" is pronounced as a long "E" sound As their markets became international, the company probably changed the spelling to "oe" to reproduce the same umlaut "o", long "e" sound, in non-German speaking countries.

Paul

 

fuel cap was from Vienna
but
tank was PHÖBUS
maybe thats...

 

Hello

The Greek god of the light, "Apollon", had many other names too, to describe his omnipotence. One of these names was "Phoibos", in German written as Phoebus or Phöbus. He was also the god for art and science. No wonder this name was often chosen as brand for industrial products, I.e. bicycles, sewing machines, or the well known lamps and stoves from Vienna.

The "Spiritus Glühlicht Gesellschaft Phöbus" was a company in Dresden (Germany) named Beese & Co and has nothing to do with "Maschinenfabrik Josef Rosenthal", the PHOEBUS in Vienna.

This Phöbus Lamp from Dresden was a lamp with mantle for spirit gas. A description in German you can find here:
> http://dingler.culture.hu-berlin.de/article/pj310/ar310034

Radler

 

- i have seen a few examples classic No 1 size stoves engraved "Phöbus" on tank
i think ...it must be german language versions of PHOEBUS brand...
but - after small investigations: "as usual" it may be problem with local endemic brands existing in Poland
PHENIX
GLOBUS
URSUS
(may be) GIGANT - only one examples known
(may be) BREWO - only one examples known

 

Hello

Phoebus had always the same lighthouse logo with the letters "M J R", before, during and after the WWII and the name of the company was "Maschinenfabrik Josef Rosenthal".
The former name was "Gerson Boehm & Rosenthal, Wien". This name is known for the year 1901.

Josef Rosenthal lived from 1860 to 1934 and was married to Lena Boehm (1864-1939). Her father was Gerson Boehm (1830-1911). Maybe the company's name was changed when Gerson Boehm had died 1911, but this is not sure.

There is a possibility, that "Phöbus" as a brand existed before this change and was written with "ö", but this is pure speculation.

Radler

 

new foto mean
this is primary PHOEBUS logo
GBR->MJR
Phöbus->Phoebus
PHÖBUS - made by Gerson, Boehm & Rosenthal



next piece of cake

 

This thread is very interesting. There is lots of good, new information.

 

only date need to be cleared
"Metallwarenfabrik Josef Rosenthal Aktiengesellschaftwurde 1887"
"Gerson Boehm & Rosenthal, Wien". This name is known for the year 1901"
"Maybe the company's name was changed when Gerson Boehm had died 1911"

 

and yet MORE variety from Gieorgi, Great post!
Your Vienna PHÖBUS No.1 is a new one for me, if it was collapsible it will be on my wish list (will it ever end?). I do not know if you have the stove in-hand Gieorgi, if you do, if you can, please in future post more nice pictures.
Nice job Gieorgi of line items 1887, 1901, 1911...While Phoebus knowledgeable stovies still have your thinking hats on and consider Gieorgis' "date need to be cleared" i wonder can we also keep focus on PHÖBUS, open question:

Can we also include (or exclude) the use of "PHÖBUS" to any of the 3 line items?

Link btw is to the "one" PHÖBUS in SRG, it is also a PHÖBUS No.1 with a fate unknown.
https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/phoebus-no-1.29078/
This is content rich I'm +1 w/Trevor, sincere thanks to Gieorgi, Ray, Paul and Radler.
tag @kristi
atb omc

 

Hello Gieorgi, you asked:

Here is your next piece of the cake: I spent 6 hours in the National Library of Austria last night to bake it.

1887 seems to be the year when Josef Rosenthal and Lina Boehm married. Father Gerson Boehm had to think what would happen, when he dies. He was 57 years old now and had responsibility for his wife, two daughters, a son and the new son in law Josef Rosenthal. A family owned shareholder company is a usual solution for this problem.

1911 Gerson Boehm died in April.

1916 was the year when the name "Gerson Boehm & Rosenthal" was abandoned. The new name was from now on "Maschinenfabrik Josef Rosenthal".

Josef Rosenthal became the only owner and the company changed the activities. The fuel and oil trade department was abandoned. Industrial production of lamps and metal ware are the only activities now.
(Published in: "Amtsblatt zur Wiener Zeitung" 9. Februar 1916)

Radler

 

cool - 1916 is the that year ...
----
probably - this is the year of double brand stamping
- https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/phoebus-no-1.29078/

 

Well spotted!

 

next example of "old-new" stamping version

 

Old GB&R gravity alcohol

 

@gieorgijewski , @shagratork ,
FYI: I'm doing a little back-tracking here, re "double stamped" example:
Gieorgi,
I review example you found and link above, PHÖBUS No.1.
I do find this PHÖBUS with MJR logo <--THIS is interesting. also note re that stove "...not written anywhere when and where it was manufactured."
I do not find it is double stamped. I think Kristi added a 2nd logo example to show his MJR logo is different than other(s).

That said, it is known Phobus example that may make problem for your
"PHÖBUS - made by Gerson, Boehm & Rosenthal" (GBR)
we see this one made later by same company but then name is MJR.
unless I am mistaken.
Also w/o "where" is made may question is copy maybe? Copy a trademark... similar bastardizations did happen near to this time and place. I will guess Phobus is legit but odd it is w/o origin stamp.
thx omc

 

About "when"
this example:

only talking
first was changed GB&R->MJR (This year is known)
later PHOBUS->PHOEBUS (it was short time after upper)
----
About "where"
Why not in "Vienna"?

 

OLD THREAD
The sequence of logos, company names in one post inspired this. Credit to membership.
i'll attempt best effort placing them in timeline/context, all things considered.

Metallwarenfabrik Josef Rosenthal Aktiengesellschaftwurde 1887

???? (1888 - 1900 ?)

Gerson Boehm & Rosenthal name in-use 1901. 1901 - into 1916
GB&R PHÖBUS

PHÖBUS No.0 fixed leg
PHÖBUS No.1 (Vienna Austria, PATENT) fixed leg
---------------------------------------------------------
next note, re his PHÖBUS No.1 Austria MJR. Credit Kristi with "Notice the difference in the logo design. " An MJR "PHÖBUS" combination is noteworthy. That unique combination and an "in between" logo. I've seen one such example, kristi's, and it was saved from the scrap heap!

--------------------------------------------------------

Maschinenfabrik Josef Rosenthal 1916 - into WW2? (1939-45).
MJR PHOEBUS Austria

PHOEBUS No.1, PHOEBUS No.1 both fixed leg
PHOEBUS No.0 collapsible
PHOEBUS No.1, PHOEBUS No. 1 claw foot collapsible
PHOEBUS No.5 fixed leg
PHOEBUS No. 5 claw foot. partially-collapsible (fixed riser)
*PHOEBUS No.1, claw foot. partially-collapsible (fixed riser)
*The Germany No.1 example (next) is same as Austria one above , a difference the "Made in Germany".

Maschinenfabrik Josef Rosenthal **** - ???? <-- year range is a WIP, corrections welcome.
**** this period begins (1939-45) w/WW2 related change(s).
The year "made in Germany" began is unclear to me. This thread has been brassie 3 legger focus. It is also unclear to me when 3-legger production ended.
MJR PHOEBUS Germany
same logo
*PHOEBUS No.1 claw foot. partially-collapsible (fixed riser)
PHOEBUS No.0 fixed leg
PHOEBUS No.1 fixed leg
PHOEBUS No.5 fixed leg​

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