Courtesy of Don (ebayer - red-eye1999) This auction was recently brought to Bryan Miller's attention & Don kindly agreed for the pics to appear on the site. I always thought from the evidence I'd seen that the 96 started in 1911 (I have ads from 1911 showing the 'new' outfit but had put the differences down to artistic license). I'd queried Bryan about a statement he'd made along the lines that the early airscrew's were on the filler caps before moving to the tank & then back to the filler cap around 1921 - the pictures of the stove featured here is what he produced to back up his claim. As you can see it also features collared legs, a feature found on a few other early Primus models. It also has a hexagonal storage boss. This is like that used on the later Optimus 96 & unlike later Primus bosses. I believe this is original as the early ad I have shows a hexagonal boss. The stove & tin also carries a soldered on brass plate bearing the name R.Melhuish Ltd, Fetter Lane, London. Melhuish were a large retailer & it is not uncommon to find several Primus models bearing this plate. All in all, a fantastic find - maybe the buyer is a member here? The ad shows the same style spirit can as well as the hexagonal storage boss & the pressure release on the filler cap. The artist has omitted to put the feet in the right place & there are no collars shown on the legs - likely artistic license? The ad is from the Civil Service CO-OP Society catalogue of 1911.
This model belongs to my stove mate and brrowed for fettlin by my way of. If this one is mine,I would say this 96 is coded A model.The engrave is quite sharrow and hardly hard to see,so foxy. So,I beliave bun foot 96 is made around within only one year too. I have 2 of A coded 96 and there are 2 type at pump knob. Earlyer has flat pump knub and later one is same as this image. maybe some of collapsible pre 1911 models has flat knub(for example I have non-dated230 bun-foot,collared legs with flat pump knub),so I would say this 96 is shallow engraved A model not pre 1911. About conditions. This rebadged model could be said 10 out of 10. regards TS
Hi Ross, I notice that the advert also give the capacity of the "new" Primus as 1-pint, rather than the 1/2 pint of a No.96. On the subject of price, 10/6, or £0.52, in 1911 was a lot of money!: In 2007, £0 10s 6d from 1911 was worth: £38.33 using the retail price index £48.65 using the GDP deflator £201.29 using the average earnings £245.10 using the per capita GDP £330.15 using the share of GDP Best Regards, Kerophile.
Thanks George. I'd noticed this before, after or during a visit by Bryan then forgot about that anomaly. A 1 pint stove would not fit into a tin that size & as far as I'm aware there as only one 'Pocket Outfit' - the 96. I think the one pint reference is an error or typo.
Hi Ross, Here goes. Maybe better,my digicam's best close up but still hard to tell how they are. regards TS
Hi Takeshi I am sorry but the area that the date code should be in is clear. I have had several 96s from this period and all have the date code written in the space under SWEDEN These are the only two examples of that type of date coding that I still have All of the date codes appeared in the same position including a 1911 Primus 100 which is the same year that you think that your stove is from. Trevor has a later version 96 which is NOT date coded meaning that it had to have been made before the codes started in 1911. I think that your stove comes from somewhere between 1907 and 1909 or 1910 but no later Sorry Regards Bryan
Hi Bryan, sorry about late reply,haven't check recently. I can say it is coded A just sharrow one,but hard to tell others.If this bun feet 96 is pre 1911 it should be slight different parts design at pump knob and lid.So am not agree with your opinion about. Here is another info just I noticed about stamp pattern how they should be. There are 2 quite different character between pre 1911 and post 1911. I've checked 5 different pre 1911 models and 5 of 1911=A,some of them are furnace and blowlampe include. beggining 1911 until early 20's I belive Primus use the same diagonal dimension stamp,only they change the code like A to K. I took pics,so check them how different. pre 1911 models 2 of No:1,No:5,banfeet230,company model furnace 1911 models are 2 of usual 230,2 of bunfeet 96,aetna blowlamp This one I posted before has typical later version,so I guess enough to belive it was stamped A just hard to see one. Collectors,if you have not as these pattern please post your images.am interested in irregular. about Trevor's 96,does it 2nd design feet but without code? am doubtfull that,so I want to see it pics very much. regards Takeshi
Hi Takeshi - very interesting to see the comparison between your pre-1911 & the 1911 inscriptions. I guess it could be argued that the change & the addition of the A/B in front of B.A. Hjorth may have ocurred prior to 1911 even though you do not have an example, so as you say - everyone else, please chack your pre 1911 stoves (not just 96's) & see what we have. I'll check as soon as I get home. I would guess your theory is likely to be correct - the addition of the date stamp would be a good time to redo the tooling for the stamp. It's almost like the A/B has been added to fill in the gap in the outer circular inscription created by the addition of more content ie date stamp in the central area. It also raises questions regarding Trevors uncoded V2 96? Could it be another example of a too faint to see stamp? Does it have the A/B B.A. Hjorth stamp or just B.A. Hjorth? Trevor? Takeshi - it may be helpful for others to see your picture of the V1 Primus date stamp with your red marks highlighting what the camera can not capture. It certainly was a big help for me. If you are in agreement could you post it here please/
Hi Takeshi Ross had sent a copy of your PT to me for comment and I had already replied to him as I could not see your reply to this topic. This is a copy of part of my reply to Ross I examined Trevor's stove carefully and there was no indication of there being any date code there. The area below Sweden was clear of any marks. Regards Bryan
I've dropped Trevor a PT too. It'll be interesting to see the format of the rest of the stamping under his 96. I've just remembered I'm out tonight so it may be tomorrow before I can check my pre-1911 tanks.
It took me ages to find my early 96. On careful inspection, it is possible that there was a letter below 'SWEDEN' which can no longer be seen. Also the word 'IN' and the middle letters of 'SWEDEN' can not be seen. It does have the A/B in front of 'B.A. Hjorth & Co'. I will take photos tomorrow and post them.
Gentlemen I have a second pre-1911 Primus #5 which I acquired within the last few months. I realize that your date stamp discussion centers around the #96. Takeshi did mention that his pictures included other than 96's, so I thought you might be interested in the stamp on the bottom of my stove. I can provide more pictures of this stove if you wish (currently disassembled and in my too-fettle pile). Other than this "date" stamp, the stove conforms in all other regards to my other pre-1911 Primus #5 which I've already posted here: https://classiccampstoves.com/posts/73170 I hope that you have found this interesting and that it helps you in your research. Best, Gary
Thanks Gary - early hours here after a long walk home fuelled by Guinees so I'll still be checking my pre-1911's a bit later but that stamping is still interesting to see as it is different again to those in this thread. In a totally different context to this 96 topic I have an even earlier version again I think. Does your No:5 have the Primus logo of a stove on the tank between Pri & mus like this? Pic courtesy of brassnipplekey
Hi Ross Yes, both of the pre-1911 5's I have include the stove engraving between Pri and Mus. Cheers, Gary
Thanks Gary - that trademark was included from 1896 so helps narrow things down a little. It's not on any of the USA made ones as far as I'm aware.
Hi Takeshi It was Gary who discovered the stove but asked my opinion of it. Initially I thought that it was a hybrid but when I looked closer realised that it must have been the first version of the Primus 96. Sorry for any upset that I may have caused you because of my wrong opinion. This was based on my assumption that Trevor's stove was pre 1911 when the date coding started. I had never seen the pre 1911 marking so was not aware of MADE IN SWEDEN having been compressed to make room for the date code. Ross & I are currently trying to finalise an article on the Primus 96 versions. Neither of us have been able to examine the version that you have so I have had to make assumptions which may be wrong. These are what I have assumed are on your stove Could you please have a look at them and let me know if any of the assumptions are wrong There is a hexagonal headed reserve lid on the first photo of the stove at the start of the topic and in some documentation that Ross has. However Optimus also used a similar reserve lid which was threaded inside. Could you please confirm that your reserve lids have no threading inside like this Optimus one? I have been looking at the photo of your two 1911 stoves and on the left stove your burner head seems to have narrower slots than the later heads but this may be an optical illusion. Can you see a difference between the above burner head and yours and does your head have Primus written on it? Also on your left stove the leg housing looks as if it has part of the plate across the bottom of the opening rather than the fully open bottom. Is this an illusion? It would be very helpful if you could supply a decent photo of your assembled stove together with a close up of one of the bun feet to be included in the article. Naturally your help would be acknowledged in the article. A lot of collectors would be very interested in your stoves as the period prior to 1911 is very interesting but poorly covered. I would be especially interested in seeing photos of your pre 1911 230. The stove at the beginning of this topic is now clearly established as being a 1911 stove. This is a 1914 Primus 96 To try to identify the date of change would anyone with a stove between these dates let me know which version they have and the date of the stove? More details of the different versions can be seen at these links Version 2 Version 3 Version 4 Version 5 Version 7 Version 8 I am sorry but I cannot currently find an example of Versions 6 but it will be covered in the article and I still have the photos of it so may put them on later. Regards Bryan
Happy New Year gents Now 2010 in JPN time zone. I haven'r seen Gary's stamp before,it's new to me,interesting!thank you I guess it slight earlier than I posted pre 1911,isn't it? Ross,sorry I don't have V1=1931 model Hi,Bryan at first.thank you about images. I think the burner plate and tank lid are correct to 1911 model. The burner head seems to me later 20's pattern.The burner tube is bit hard to tell the correct age to me but is likely later one,asa far as I know early 10's tube has tend to no stamping on the hex lid side wall. The early burner tube is straght out to the end of hexa lid,so you can see it double wall the thread tip,does yours too? The second generation tube stuck inside the middle of hexa,so easy to judge,also the kink of top head is different early has angular than later. Parking boss seems to me second generation,pump assembly also.The pump assembly C to E?I didn't own 96-1912 so I can't include B. The reserve lid is not early 96's I think,both of mine has no thread inside. about 96-1911 burner head,it is slight different than later 10's.It is bit thinner and air hole vent has sharpen kink,I checked 3 of and all tend to this way.I don't have the best sentence to explain.I don't like to use language auto transfer but hope you understand or imagine what I want to saying sure I will post images. I have to clean them first,will do until spring I promise Now I will go to temple to pray,it's usual custom here in JPN at new year 1st day people do. hope the new year will brings you good luck and happiness best regards TS
