Back in June members pondered an open question: SMolson: " Hopefully others can check their old Opti roarers from that period and earlier to get more evidence/information that Optimus kept up the old stamping into the 30's (at least)." https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/26014 Additional info was recently posted to consider. What different characteristics of an Opti burner might suggest it's older? The burner on the right can be found within the link above (and MANY other examples). My impression of suggestions that have been posted is that burners w/this stamping were in use 1914-ish into the 30's. The burner on the left was recently mentioned here https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/28590 That post is re a few old examples ie pre 1914 from a time that details are few and far between. Following link is re Lux that relates to older Optimus stoves. There are multiple links w/similar suggestions (makes sense) how Lux stove parts/design influenced some early Optimus stoves of the time in many ways. The Lux burner however is not like those Opti burners of the time. https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/17621 thx omc
Hi, Primus used the old form of the Russian Cyrillic alphabet well into the 1930s and I believe it likely that the other Swedish manufacturers, such as Optimus, did the same: https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/26123 Best Regrds, Kerophile.
Hi, Thank you Kerophile for comment adding good info re the one on the right. It's doubtful we'll find what approx year this (above right)1914-ish and later roarer was 1st used. This pic below is one of the pre-1915 burners referred to similar to the one on the left above. I've searched more in the meanwhile and w/process of elimination I'm now leaning toward an igh371 comment thinking this is pre-1915. This is not to say it was in use in 1914 but that I'm thinking it's an earlier version than those 1914/15-ish roarers (above right). I'd like to hear member's thoughts or if they would take a closer look at older Opti roarers and w/that we may learn more. thx omc
I just had a look at my Optimus 1 traveler that I think is from the 20s and it has the multiple inscriptions....not just Optimus. Dave https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/22592 Mine seems to match this one (just not shiny)
I just looked at my ~1924 Optimus 45 and the burner matches that on the right in the two pictures above. Steve
ALL input to-date and future is appreciated. It's a (continued) "discussion" re dating Optimus *Roarers / stoves topic. Referred to as No.1 roarer is Optimus type 201/211 on 1.75 / 2 pint stoves. Although most are represented below (not necessarily in order) the discussion focus is re the older 2 or 3. Seeking comment along those lines. The pre-1915 Optimus info is a challenge. Thank IGH371 comment(s) for enlightening us re additional Optimus info we're now considering circa pre 1915. Top row: Left, middle, Right Sources: Top L https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/optimus-patent-no-1-q-a.28590/#post-291811 Top middle https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/operational-old-optimus-no-1.21154/#post-292133 Top R https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/travelling-optimus-no-1-1914-18.15377/#post-264712 Bottom L https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/19299 Bottom middle https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/12852 Bottom R https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/24141 thx omc PS ZOOM IN on pics (hold cntrl key, tap + or -, zooms in or out)
IGH371, Re Top L. It appears to be a center punct in the burner? If so is that from original manufacturer tooling? I've seen more clear examples of this tooling, not Optimus. If it is (or might be) may help a more machinist savvy member understand more re that example [edit, just took my own advice, with zoom-in the punct is not centered, correct? oops] A note re Top L. This image was involved in related topics. "Engraving" was mentioned (not for that roarer). In case members weren't aware. The vast majority of the impressive lettering / logos etc on the TANKS, is not engraved it is stamped into the brass during manufacturing. Additionally the text in the burners above however are cast, the letters are in the mold when the part is cast from molten brass. The Top L burner lettering is recessed vs all the others. IGH371 or anyone, it was mentioned lettering on very old Primus burners is similar to these very old Optimus burners. Is there recessed lettering on the very old or oldest examples of Primus burners, anyone know? We certainly CAN get pre-1915 CLUES with other manufacturers which will be part of answers, good. For my searches on this to-date I "don't even go there", not yet (it was enough to gather the Optimus info above). thx omc
https://classiccampstoves.com/posts/100285 Hi OMC, I reckon you have the sequence of burner head markings correct in your six example series. Best Regards, Kerophile.
Well here is a starter for you, just for comparison of course: a sequence of Svea burners which can be dated from other data to, in order, 1. pre-1908, 2. post 1908-c.WW1 and 3. WW1 era. There is definitely some paralleling with Optimus in development of style/quality of manufacturing appearance. In particular the switch from incuse to relief makers' names.
Okay, the ole eyes are playin tricks on me. This is a second closer look at this post. SVEA pre 1908 letters are recessed but the post 1908 - ca WW1... the letters, recessed? now I'm not sure. help? WW1 era raised letters. Re Optimus roarers above, Top middle and top right, these both can be found on Travelling No.1 that both came in exact same type tin. TIN box as described in 1915 AD and 1917/18 catalog. A 1921 AD for Travelling No.1 uses SAME tin box image but describes a FIBRE box and by 1921 it WAS likely a fibre box (btw, posts indicate the external NRV was no longer used ca 1921). Coming up w/date info for marblecreek's Top middle aint easy. I try to decipher all info available and haven't narrowed it much really. Kerophile 1914/18 descriptor makes sense and "the range" for marblecreek's as shown may be earlier but how much earlier... 3 months? 3 years? I'm enthusiastic about history of camp stoves and how they developed. FYI these Opti No.1s heighten my interest as I too have a No.1 almost identical to Kerophile's but I have no tin. thx omc
I agree; the common thread with both Optimus and Svea at least is that crudely stamped incuse makers names on cross-type roarer burners are invariably pre-WW1. Relief casting, on the other hand, seems to arrive just before WW1. Hugo Moller (Comet), for example, definitely used a simple cast relief name on their burners by 1912. And, once established, relief casting quickly supplanted incuse stamping and became the norm thereafter.
Ken, igh, enlightening, thank you both. For sake of discussion going forward, as you say w/Optimus & SVEA examples, raised lettering on roarers went into use circa 1914 (industry examples may pre-date that 1 - 4 years). and that Incuse / recessed lettering is pre-1914 (circa 1908, pre 1908, raised lettering wasn't established yet). There are members with circa 1910 roarer stoves including "Primus" lettering who (re date comment above) WILL themselves see comparisons which likely, or may, sway this discussion if/when such Primus info is posted. igh you brought incuse into the discussion WITH your 1900- 1910/11? AWESOME Opti burner. I WOULD have adopted the term incuse, I wanted to, except it means stamped which I "was" not sure applied here and leads to my comment... Re the knowledge and skill of the inventors and craftsman that created our stoves of 1890 - 1920 - 1960. These quality stoves represent a very high level of knowledge of the materials of the time. In 1895 and today ANYTHING cast from molten metals, if you strike it, cracks are likely vs non-cast metal that doesn't crack. This is true for cast brass too HOWEVER the discussion is that although cast, being softer, the cast brass was stampable enough. Some old recessed lettering (now that Ken & igh mention it) looks like it's cast BUT some DOES look stamped as well. I'm apparently once again further enlightened in this case re lettering cast w/the mold vs stamped. thx omc
OMC, Circa 1910 Primus No. 1 burners from the Gallery (all raised letters): Primus No.1 1911 here: https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/25783 https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/25496 https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/13557 Pre 1911: https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/14958 ?1903 here; https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/23311
Thank you Tony Press ! we'll consider this discussion SWAYED. In light of this the content of my above dating comment is inaccurate or at very least incomplete but could be RE written completely. What was accurate is that "... circa 1910 roarer stoves including "Primus" lettering ...comparisons which likely, or may, sway this discussion..." My time is limited next couple days so won't keep up as I'd like, I meanwhile WELCOME any such rewrite of the dating above and all input towards the discussion. thx omc
Assuming that the Primus examples cited do all still sport their original burners it looks like Primus were definitely well ahead of the competition in producing relief cast, marked, burner tops. Only one I can see in the Gallery that could be any different is this one from 1903, but it is not clear ( Link ). There are other postings that could be enlightening but where the burner tops are unfortunately not visible (including some of mine).
Thank you, thank you. Quicky comment, still very thankful for members to chime-in w/details. Re original or not, we get better overall understanding considering many examples (CCS makes possible TY!). In-part why I added the Primus caveat in my above dating comment WAS that I recall many Primus posts/comments "pre-1911". We can be thankful 1911-on Primus began dating them. They ALL copied each other, the very 1st original "Primus" stove blatantly copied a blowtorch design. Along w/copying came the law suits (copies continued). Anyway, there are some new blanks to fill in, the X factors: re the above and main brass 3 leg stove manufacturers (Primus, Optimus, Lux, ???) the raised letters on burners came into use circa...19XX (or range 190X - 1912/13?)? Prior to 19XX (the oldest examples, to-date, of burners w/raised letters) roarer burner letters were recessed. thx omc
OLD THREAD all, I need to add this "OPTIMUS SWEDEN" example that was missed above. It sits on an "Optimus No.11 " with "made in Sweden" bottom stamp and the unique filler cap found on the cover of '84 Optimus brochure. If burner is even original (I would guess it likely is) that doesn't date it to c1984 but may get us close give or take. IF I came across this burner loose in my hand I may have guessed pre-1962. Now I'm thinking maybe much later, a time when Optimus stopped making the Primus brand (Optimus-made stoves with the Primus name on them). It seems like yesterday I posted wondering when the last Optimus 45 (and No.1) was made? Appears c1984 No.1 was maybe still being made in Sweden? The Optimus Svea 123R production moved to Asia at some point. I don't know if there's any correlation with that and when 3 legger production ended in Sweden? inquisitive omc
OLD THREAD shoot, I'm late and gotta run, but "it seems" we may have another update . burner example below no.45 burner, it seems is a version from period that ended in 1995 source which, although text is the same, the mold for this one differs from my (possible c'84) example above it. If you're so inclined, maybe direct comments to this related ongoing discussion link, thx
Hi @OMC. From early 1990s Optimus No.00 “Camper” stove: From this thread: Optimus No.00L "Camper". Made in Sweden, Early 1990's. Un-used. Best Regards, Kerophile.
